Pushback

Back in Old Testament times there were many prophets who lived and preached in Jerusalem. I presume that they had homes and neighbors. Was it "weird" that your next door neighbor was called of God to preach faith, repentance, etc?

I think Jesus said it best: A prophet hath no honor in his own country. (John 4:44)

It seems that universally people have had difficulty with the idea that someone they know personally might be a prophet called by God and that only the passage of centuries makes it easier to accept.

Weird beliefs? Nope.

Two of the tenants of the "Mormon" faith are:

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own cconscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

It would seem that either a man will respect the office he holds and the nation he serves, or he won't.

Once again, I, as an atheist, find it a fascinating dichotomy that a Christian can dismiss a Mormon, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, pagan, for believing in nonsensical things and vis-versa. All religions believe in things that seem nonsensical to we atheists. Yet, it would be wrong to dismiss these religious people from holding higher office. I do not prostelitize or try to ban their beliefs. I do not push for my belief to be taught as "gospel". Rather, I look for the issue of religion to be divorced from civic life. I look for people to respect other people's rights to worship, regardless how I view the individual belief. I urge my friends to debate and discuss their beliefs but, in the end, to recognize that we all must make peace with our own spiritual and physical lives. It is a shame that this country would never elect an aetheist for one thing you could count on with an aetheist; they would be concerned with the here and now only!

Good topic Terr.

I'll reserve my opinion till I hear Mitt's position on the war.

From what I've seen of Mitt Romney, he definitely has my vote. I've been thirsty for a president who can articulate conservative values, govern successfully, and come up with elegant solutions to problems for too many years now. I like McCain, but he doesn't have the chops compared to Romney.

As for the Mormon thing...I agree with the person who commented that it means the same as voting for a methodist president. We can all look at Romney's record, and judge how he will govern based on that - and he has a good record.

How great would it be to have a Mormon President! All the better to have one who practices his religion - religiously. His Christianity means strong stands for faith, family, education, and other traditional values. It also means strong stands against issues that degrade society. If it proves true that Mitt Romney has no skeleton in his closet, he has my vote.

I totally disagree with what has been said above--voting for a Mormon is NOT the same as voting for a Methodist.

(For those of you who want just the Cliff's notes, look for simple math formulas after each point)

Mormons hold to a living, breathing leader who's authority is considered 100% absolute.

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To a Mormon...

What prophet dude says = What God says

Not doing what prophet says = I lose points with God
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If he is a good, obedient Mormon, then the man you elect will not be the man who controls the nuke button. He will always bow the knee to the Mormon prophet. You will indirectly be electing the Mormon prophet as president. On the other hand, if he is a Mormon who is uncommitted and in rebellion against his own camp, then he is untrustworthy and unfit for the job.

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IF elected Mormon = good trustworthy man of character, then...

Mormon prophet > President of the United States
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The obvious retort is that a good Methodist holds to an absolute authority as well--the Bible.

This is true, but there is a key difference. The Bible is an ancient book that has been well studied, and we know what to expect from someone who holds to it. The foundation of the Bible-believing man is firm, secure, and predictable. (By the by, I would not classify Bush in this category since He is rather ignorant about the Bible.)

The only thing that is truly firm, secure, and predictable about the Mormon man is that his absolute authority figure is a man with a free will and a lot of power and money. His authority is even more absolute than the Bible because he can change church doctrines on a whim.

EXAMPLES

The Mormons taught that polygamy was required in order to get into the "best" heaven, but that didn't stop the Mormon prophet from throwing polygamy out the window when Utah's statehood was at stake. Polygamy went instantly from VIP to grounds for excommunication by his words alone. This has also been done with several key doctrines of the Mormon faith concerning the priesthood offices, weddings, blood oaths, and how to earn heaven. These changes pop up all the time throughout the entire history of the Mormon religion.

In other words...

a good METHODIST says, "I believe the Bible."

a good MORMON says, "I believe whatever I am last told."

All it takes is for the Mormon prophet to say, "God says nuke here," and it will be done.

The Bible cannot do that. A power-grabbing prophet can.

I agree with Someone Who Cares. By electing a Mormon President of the United States, voters would be tacitly electing Gordon B. Hinckley. Mormons are told "When the Prophet has spoken, the thinking is done".

Moreover, the Mormon church requires members in good standing - which Mitt Romney claims he is - to pay 10% of their income to the church without ever knowing where the money goes.
As a taxpayer, I don't trust someone to be president who willingly gives money to a non-transparent organization, and who believes that others can do the thinking for him(pretty close to what W has done).
If Mr.Romney is truly a member in good standing, he has made promises that he does.

I'm still waiting for someone to ask Romney for his thoughts about Helen Kimball, Nancy Winchester, and Joseph Smith's other unfortunate underage "plural wives". After Foleygate, the last thing the Republican party needs is a candidate linked to a man who abused his authority to seduce teenagers.

Let's not forget the oaths he takes in the mormon temple.

The oaths which require him to pledge his time and talents and everything he is and does to the "building up of the kingdom of god on earth".

Would you want someone who is a member of a faith with borderline fanatical members to take an oath in a secret temple of which no non-member can enter into and then have that person pledge their existence to the church, THEN turn around and pledge that same existance to this great country?

Um... no
http://lds-mormon.com/veilworker/endowment.shtml

Here is a great site about Mitt Romney where people can educate themselves and decided if he is the right person for 2008:

http://www.mittreport.com

www dot mittreport dot com

I find it ironic that the majority of people speaking on behalf of Mormonism in this thread are not themselves Mormon.

As a Mormon, the most troubling assertion I have heard is that the prophet dictates our political beliefs and that "good mormons" are required to blindly follow church leaders. This, quite simply, is false. Mormon conspiracy theorists are abundant and will be coming out of the woodwork during this presidential political season. I hope the main stream media will shed some light on their deceit and bigotry. (Looking forward to the piece Terry)

It should also be noted that I don’t intend to vote for Romney despite the fact that we share the same faith.

Voting for a candidate because of their religion is as ignorant as NOT voting for a candidate because of their religion.

If you really think all Mormons march to the same drum politically because of prophetic teaching you need look no further than Senator Harry Reid (D) Nevada. I think we all know he has different views from Mr. Romney yet he is a Mormon in good standing all the same. I hope we can move past this as an issue and look at Mr. Romney for who he is, the best candidate in the field, Republican or Democrat.

Well if Romney is indeed a puppet of the LDS Church, then here is what he must accept...

LDS Church Proclimation
http://www.lds.org/newsroom/issues/answer/0,19491,6056-1-462-44-462,00.html

Question:
Does the Church support or endorse political parties or candidates?

Answer:
The Church’s mission is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, not to elect politicians. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is neutral in matters of party politics. This applies in all of the many nations in which it is established.

The Church does not:

* Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.
* Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.
* Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
* Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader.

The Church does:

* Encourage its members to play a role as responsible citizens in their communities, including becoming informed about issues and voting in elections.
* Expect its members to engage in the political process in an informed and civil manner, respecting the fact that members of the Church come from a variety of backgrounds and experiences and may have differences of opinion in partisan political matters.
* Request candidates for office not to imply that their candidacy or platforms are endorsed by the Church.
* Reserve the right as an institution to address, in a nonpartisan way, issues that it believes have significant community or moral consequences or that directly affect the interests of the Church.

In the United States, where nearly half of the world’s Latter-day Saints live, it is customary for the Church at each national election to issue a letter to be read to all congregations encouraging its members to vote, but emphasizing the Church’s neutrality in partisan political matters.

Relationships With Government

Elected officials who are Latter-day Saints make their own decisions and may not necessarily be in agreement with one another or even with a publicly stated Church position. While the Church may communicate its views to them, as it may to any other elected official, it recognizes that these officials still must make their own choices based on their best judgment and with consideration of the constituencies whom they were elected to represent.

Modern scriptural references to the role of government: Doctrine and Covenants, Section 134

Mormon President.........beleives women dont go to Mormon Heaven #1 unless they reproduce, believes more babies on earth, more slaves in heaven; beleives every other Christian Religion is invalid. Believes that the LDS Church is the "Restored and only True Church", denies Jesus as God Incarnate. As a Republican I would vote a Huffington-Pelosi Ticket before voting for Mitt.Mark my words, it will mever happen.

It is very simple: If Mormon President Gordon B. Hinkley, or any prophet that is his predecesor is "told by God" that the end is coming and all must gather in Missouri for the second coming, a faithful Mormon, even if he is the President of The United States of America, will go. Who will be our leader then? I respect a man who can put God before country in his own life, but when the decision will affect the lives of an entire nation it is too much of a risk. A True Believing Mormon's temple Oath will come before his oath that is taken as the President of our nation.

Help, please....
As to this "temple" that no "non-member" can enter... Somewhere along the way, I seem to have accuired the belief that women, members or not, also cannot enter. Is this true? If so, how can a Mormon efectively represent me? BTW, I'm of the female persuasion, and think I should have rights equal to any man. I certainly am not going to cast my vote for any man who would "lock me out of the temple." Is what I am complaining about a true fact, or have I been infected with someone in my past's religeous paranoia? Can women go to the temple?
TIA,
Scarlett

Separation of Church and State. Why can't Americans get this in their head and leave religion out of it?

Also, Why can't religion respect this either?

The day we follow through on a true separation of church and state, the better we will be.

As a Mormon, I think Mitt's biggest obstacle is going to be to clear up all the confusion around the LDS religion. For example, women and men are both able to enter the temple, we do believe in Jesus Christ, we don’t support polygamy, and fully support the Constitution. We also believe that Gordon B. Hinckley is our spiritual leader - giving guidance and suggestions on how we can live better lives and grow closer to Christ. In no way are members of the LDS church puppets of the prophet…we listen and decided for ourselves. I have been very surprised at all the venom and harsh words that have been shared on TV and the Internet towards Mormons.

I have been a life long Mormon and can safely say that no Mormon prophet will likely say anything more scary than has been said over the pulpit in the past 40 years. Mormon life is pretty dull.Most people pay their tithing,usually less than what is required and simply try to do the best they can. The church has distanced itself greatly from early pprophets teachings saving only the very basic doctrines.Mormons are however expected to obey their leaders without question. I am shocked that other Mormons would even say that we don't follow blindly. Ask a nineteen year old male who dosen't want to serve a mission how that goes over with the folks at home.

I heard Mitt Romney speak for the first time a couple of days ago and I was very impressed. I don't think his religion would sway my vote at all. I've known several Mormons throughout my life and they have all been really nice people. We should vote for the person that would make the best. They shouldn't base their decision on any religious bigotry.

It is unbelievable that those not of the Mormon faith, can say such rubbish. If Mitt is qualified to take on the grueling office of President, then he should be elected. I would expect him to follow his faith, as each and every President that has been elected to follow their faith. If they turn their back on their faith, wouldn't they turn their back on their country. Mormon, Methodist, Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, etc. all have their religious leaders. Each President has turned toward their faith in times of crisis and difficult decisions. This man would be expected to do the same.
Besides we could use another person of decency in the White House. One that is not clouded with a past of charges as a lawyer, standing up for justice to turn her head, or finding loopholes to dodge the laws made in this country.
There has never been a President in the White House who did not have some mark on his life. Each person is not perfect, but it would be nice to have someone who is striving to be so.
I agree with Anna. We should vote for the person that would make the best candidate for President, and should not base their decision on race, color or creed including religion.

I took the time years back to familiarize myself with the Mormon teachings. I am Baptist and moderately conservative both politically and religiously. I am at odds with what has predominately been packaged as the so called "Fundamental" Christianity. They take strange positions on the Books of Genesis, Daniel, and Revelation.

Religion, especially those who are devout, takes an overriding effect in a person's decision making process. For those who would vote for any candidate it would be prudent to gain a reality based understanding of what he or she basically believes as far as faith or lack of faith is concern. This is rarely done.

There are some pretty ignorant and amazingly stupid remarks being made on this website about the LDS faith like,
EXHIBIT #1:"What prophet dude says = What God says.
Not doing what prophet says = I lose points with God". Wrong!!! Wrong!!! Wrong!!!
The Prophet gives the members guidance such as "stay away from pornography, don't bring it in to your homes etc..." We are then free to listen or to reject what guidance he gives because we believe in free agency. Ever heard of natural consiquences? Generally it is believed that if we go to our meetings, study the scriptures, pray often, and live our lives according to the teachings/standards of the Church we have a pretty good chance of being happy in this life and our children will benefit from our example.

Where in the world are you from and where in the world do you get your information? It sounds like paranoia even hysteria.

Another uninformed person wrote...
EXHIBIT #2: "the Mormon church requires members in good standing - which Mitt Romney claims he is - to pay 10% of their income to the church without ever knowing where the money goes."

Huh? The truth is we are told where our money goes because we fill out a receipt. The receipt has different things underwhich we can check off where we want the money to go. This is given to the Bishop of each ward who in turn does a Tithing settlement at the end of each year. In other words there is an accounting for every dollar and cent that is paid to the church. I understand though that millions of $$$ donated to victims of Hurricane Katrina were lost or unaccounted for.

A historical anecdote:
When Joseph Smith (the first Propet) was asked how he governed his people so well, he replied, “I teach them correct principles and they govern themselves.” Now does that sound like the Prophet was telling members of the Church what to do?

Before you point a finger at weird religious practices take a look at your own... My stepdaughter told me of a boy that told her she was going to go to Hell because she doesn't go to church. Talk about weird. And of all the practices known to mankind I still can't think of anything more bizarre that cutting of the foreskin of a penis and yet people have been doing it for millenia. Hello!
What I find as a member of the LDS faith is that non-members often get old, bad, or obsolete information about our faith. And this gets passed around and around until like an old rumor it just sticks.
I think the most idiotic thing of all is when people say that the Mormons aren't Christians. Well, sorry people but nobody owns that name. Besides the name Jesus Christ is in our Church's name. As for Mitt Romeny becoming president. I wish the guy well, in fact, I wish anybody well who takes on the office of Command and Chief. I wouldn't want that job for all the gold in the world. What a nightmare.

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