Pushback

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Right, cause we know that fighting for women's rights is the top priority of Al Qaeda.

Just reading the comments on this thread it is so obvious that what passes for "liberalism" these days is all hate, all bile, all venom, all day every day. Is it possible someone could conclude that communism (which after all has only been responsible for millions or even hudereds of millions of deaths everywhere it has been tried) might not be the best thing without autmoatically being stupid and evil? Is it at least a remote possibility that someone could take issue with some of your utopian ideas without therefore being an idiot? I feel like I just turned a corner and came face to face with an open sewer. Repulsive.

Does ABC condone hate speech?

Yes. They hired Glenn Beck

Amanda Marcotte is hate speech incarnate. I’m not sure how to spell the German word for what she is, Shadenfreude maybe? Someone who takes pleasure in the troubles of others, she cannot deny it, and this is what we might have controlling information for a president. I’m wondering why someone so obviously full of bile is comfortable with a guttural disposition that shouldn’t be tolerated by any person who still has the right to vote, much less her trial lawyer, and presidential candidate boss Mr. Edwards. I’ve read some of Ann Coulter’s books, and someone without a progressive/communist agenda would be able to discern the differences between an educated potty mouth, and a sarcastic pundit. Ms Marcotte would be happier in Russia, she doesn't belong in this contry.

Maybe the answer is this: abolish political parties. They are an institution (like the electoral college) that has outlived it's usefulness, and now only seems to exist to feed into the polarization of America. By reading all of your wonderful comments, bloggers, it looks like many of you throw Democrat and Republican around like the n-word (and yes, I do compare them, after all they're degrees of hatred when used as insults).
I am nominally a Republican, only because I find slightly more of their views closer to mine. But when I read the sewage that some of you throw around, it disgusts me and makes me disavow ALL labels. Therefore, I am not a democrat or republican, not a liberal or conservative, just an American. And I'll ignore the bloggers and media as slightly stupid (albeit sometimes lovable) children and listen to the candidates - and then vote on what I hear from them.
Moran, though is right in saying, "Can't we all please just get along?"

The major difference between the right and the left, is that the influential bloggers and radio personalities on the right have called for the death of Americans who disagree with them. They have also called for Americans to be jailed or held in internment camps for opposing the war.

I challenge anyone to find a Liberal blogger calling for the death or imprisonment of Conservatives for their political views, like the right has done countless times.

Under T Moran's leadership, ABC news is trying hard to become Fox-lite. Edwards' blogger is much less objectional than people like Ann Coulter and Glen Beck whom ABC regularly allows to spew their lying, hate-filled invectives to a national audience. ABC is also quick to parrot unattributed, false stories about Dems (Polosi plane, Obama madrasa eg)planted by the moonie press while ignoring real malfeasance and corruption by Repugs. Shame on ABC.

I live in the mountains with limited TV reception. ABC is the local affiliate. I refuse to watch this station's national news because of the obvious and inaccurate right-wing slant. Thank G0od for the Bloggs.

"My God, you folsk on the left are miserable, humorless, insistent and tireless brats. Give it a rest"

Actually Teri we folsk (sic) on the left are quite a happy crew, with wonderful senses of humor when SOMETHING IS FUNNY. Insistent and tireless? Perhaps, ever since you wackos on the far right started ramming your backwards ideas down our throats. Brats? Let's not use schoolyard names, it is so immature don't you think?

"Moran was right to try to distract you with some entertainment. You remind me of 8 year olds on a rampage. "Disavow your brother! You don't hate enough! You're not towing the party line!"

What's he distracting us from Teri, that war over in Iraq that your side has been so successful at running? I see you personally identify with 9/11 since you are wearing the date on your sleeve. Do you agree with Ann Coulter's comments regarding the Jersey Girls, just because they happen to disagree with her politically? Do you agree that there is bad and good on both sides of the ideological fence? And I really do hate to break it to you, but out here in the heartland the Republican Party is seen as the party of hate and fear. As for party loyalty I think that there are what, 7 moderates left in the GOP now? Most rank and file moderate Republicans and Independents voted Democrat in November. What does that tell you Teri? Ask Chuck Hagel what party disloyalty brings you, if you even know who he is.
"What a horrible world you folks want to live in. If everyone doesn't agree with you, they're to be demonized and destroyed. You lose sight of someone's humanity very quickly. That's incredibly sad"

Sorry Teri, but that would be the MO of right wing Republicans. Just take a minute to re-read what you write. Demonized and destroyed? Whom has been calling whom unpatriotic if they don't agree with the current administration's policies? Who gets labeled wrongly as hating America first, just because we support a separation of church and state or miniumum government involvement in social issues? Teri, Right Wing Pundits don't care about humanity, only bank accounts.

Please don't feel sorry for me Teri. Other than when I read trite, overly sanctimonious and hypocritical postings by uninformed partisans who care more for their political party than their country I live very harmonious and charmed life. But thanks for the concern and if you are really sincere we would appreciate it if you would educate yourself about the state of affairs of our great country and quit attempting to hide your contempt for those that don't agree with you behind patronizing platitudes. I'll pray for you.

"Thanks to all who have weighed in on the issue of John Edwards' "blogmaster" Amanda Marcotte. All voices and views are welcome here. The whole point of "Pushback" is to provoke a discussion, to take a look at the news and start talking about it."

You have got a lot to learn about this medium.

You were taken to task yesterday largely for interposing what honest people on the left, right and middle would deem silly, if not stupid rhetorical questions, apparently under the guise of provoking a discussion. (e.g., "If a Republican candidate teamed up with a right-wing blogger who spewed this kind of venom, how would people react?")

Your response to the din, however, is vintage Tony Snow. Thanks for racing to bottom to avoid and obfuscate the issue you raised. Your abject failure to inquire whether Mr. McCain condones hate speech by virtue of persons he has teamed with is duly noted.

If you want to provoke discussion, do your job. If you merely post talking points, you will get hammered.

Mr. Moran,
This is the first time I've ever taken the time to read through a blog and its responses. You expressed the hope that the blogosphere would deepen and extend our national debate. The posts that followed, for the most part, caused me to seriously doubt the ability of this part of our citizenry to ever participate constructively in a serious debate.
Last night I helped my 13 year old daughter study for a logic test on fallacies (bad arguments based on faulty reasoning). Among the types of fallacies she'll be tested on are ad hominem (attacking the person rather than the argument) and straw man (mischaracterizing an opponent's argument by isolating just one part of it), fallacies in abundance in the above posts. Missing from the exchange, again for the most part, were reasoned arguments over ideas. Today, people seem to think if they yell the loudest, they'll win the debate. Lost is the art of making arguments that stand up under scrutiny. If you're ever interested in seeing an example of a "deeper" national debate, as Mr. Moran hopes for, read the Federalist Papers. The language and intelligent arguments are so compelling, you'll wish as I do for a renaissance of logic and civility.

*****

A very simple question to Terry.. have you done any similar investigation of whether McCain/Guliani/Romney/Brownback campaigns have hired anyone in ANY role that has made "hateful" comments in their past.

If you have done this investigation what did you find out?

If not, why have not you done this investigation since you thought it important enough to write about in a negative tone on your blog??

Hope you answer this question.

*****

Gosh, I am not sure that this "conversation" about hate speech is helpful. Many of those who have posted comments that rail against this type of speech seem to have lowered themselves to the very thing they propose to despise.

I am concerned that any group that hires and condones this kind of speech has crossed the line. I long for politics and politicians that discuss issues in a manner that is civil and honest. Whether these leaders are conservative or liberal, I don't think that hiring and propping up these kinds of discussion are in the best interest of our national discourse.

I am truly a proponent of free speech. These folk can say and write whatever they like. I do not have to read it (and don't). However, I do not want those seeking to lead our country hiring them.

Terry, I appreciate your willingness to have these discussions without blasting others and resorting to name-calling. Also, that you love your brother whether or not you agree with his ideas. That shows leadership.

"Just reading the comments on this thread it is so obvious that what passes for "liberalism" these days is all hate, all bile, all venom, all day every day"

Agreed. And you would be surprised how many are federal employees surfing the nutroots on taxpayer time. I know a GS15 at DOL who spends his entire work day surfing the net.

TERRY: Please don't attribute the amount of negative responses or hateful vitrol here as anyting indicative of public opinion. Most of your lefty commenters are online activists from the DU/Kos fever swamps.

You won't see many mainstream peeps commentng here because its a waste of their time - seriously, why would I waste my time arguing with trolls who insist the CBS forgeries were a Rove op?

Anyways, please try to stay objective and above all the vitrol here. Not that I'm coming back to the networks anytime soon, but I HAVE noticed that of the left-biased MSM, ABC and WaPo are at least trying to provide more objective reporting. Good luck to you.

"Last night I helped my 13 year old daughter study for a logic test on fallacies (bad arguments based on faulty reasoning). Among the types of fallacies she'll be tested on are ad hominem (attacking the person rather than the argument) and straw man (mischaracterizing an opponent's argument by isolating just one part of it), fallacies in abundance in the above posts."

Don't forget "Tu Quoque":

A is bad, but since
B is also bad
A is excused

Example that is typical of numerous lefty posts on this topic:

".. have you done any similar investigation of whether McCain/Guliani/Romney/Brownback campaigns have hired anyone in ANY role that has made "hateful" comments in their past."

Translation: "Since I think others are just as bad as Marcotte, and since Terry has failed to investigate them too, I will hold Terry's argument suspect and excuse/deny/ignore Marcotte's bigotry."

"So let me try and understand this. John Edwards should have to fire two woman because they used a few swear words"

Strawman. Marcotte has a pattern & history of bigotry towards Catholics and Southerners. Apparently, Edwards beleives its unwise to antagonize those voters...

Moot point anyway. Edwards never had a real shot at POTUS. He's just a pretty boy with good hair. Hillary will maul him in the primary.

Well, Instapundit reports Edwards is KEEPING his two little bigots on staff. Thats fine too. They'll have their "Dean Scream" moment, they can't help themselves.

Dear Lord, Mr. Moran. I feel for you. What it must do to you, reading these howls of hate. But I did read recently that hate is now fashionable, and exhibiting your hatred of "the evil one", whoever that might be, is held to be an admirable quality in liberals. We really are in a post-Christian world, aren't we?

Were everyone to adhere to a sort of golden rule and never say something unkind about someone else that would be wonderful. I don't see that happening any time soon, more's the pity.

As a person of faith who is not of the Jewish/Muslim/Christian bent I am regularly barraged with "hate speech" from the Christians that really is never addressed in our society. In all honesty, I am far better treated my Muslim and Jewish neighbors than the Christian ones. I am treated better by liberals than conservatives. Hence, I suppose I am almost anesthetized to religious slams. Dominant religion whining about being mistreated when they abuse others constantly leaves me with very little empathy since they are the main purveyors of abuse.

Like others, I tend to feel that the left (of which I am not a member, by the way) is subjected to abuse for attempting to do even a little of what the right (of which I am also not a member) is getting away with. Hence, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and if one is concerned about Edwards’ blogging staffer then one wonders where the concern is for the crazed right wingers out there.

As one of those who wander in the wilderness of the middle grounds I usually feel like the old saying “a pox on all their houses.” That being said, I suspect that if we met most of the folks we “love to hate” that we’d find they are very nice people whom we’d like a great deal – which does not mean I will be lining up to meet Rush Limbaugh any time soon.

Mikesc,
Are you employed, sir. You have commented at least a dozen times to these two posts. Don't you have anything better to do than troll an abc news blog and feebly try to discredit other posters. Bush league stuff, laughable.
-Da Jesus Quintana

You ought to shut up about this if you don't want to look like your brother's sock puppet, Mr. Moran.

Watch yourself, or you will end up fired from ABC.

Jesus, comparing white-supremacist and eliminationist rhetoric to the writings of Marcotte et al...

And conveniently ignoring in your contrived self-justification the far worse hate-filled rantings of McCain's bloggers...

Have you no sense of decency, or are you truly your brother's brother?

And will due respect, your brother says some pretty nasty things. Here he is wishing death upon Keith Olbermann:

"You almost want to avert your eyes when the inevitable crash comes but, like those of us who watch NASCAR solely for the spin-outs and pile-ups, the entertainment value of watching Olberman melt like the Wicked Witch of the West right before our eyes will be immensely satisfying."

Doug:

You are a ninny. To take an allusion to the Wizard of Oz and make it into my wishing death on Olberman is loony.

Get a grip kid. Take a Xanax and breathe into a paper bag.

Kudos to the brothers Moran for exposing the radical loon insanity of the Edwards campaign. If this incident proves nothing else, it certainly underscores the fact that leftists can never be trusted to behave with America's best interest in mind. They will always cater to the anti-religious, anti-American fringe extremists instead. Edwards embodies everything that is wrong with the modern Democrat party, and is a sterling example of why that party must never be entrusted with executive authority in times of war (i.e., now).

On a related note, Marcotte and her ilk should bear in mind that their sophomoric demagoguery only emboldens the enemies of freedom and democracy. Such senseless tirades endanger the lives of our troops overseas, and should be suppressed by a rational society interested in self-survival. America's Constitution is not a suicide pact, and neither our forebears nor our descendents will forgive us if we lose our republic for failure to stomp out the treason within which moonbats like Marcotte (and Edwards) so flagrantly typify.

"I challenge anyone to find a Liberal blogger calling for the death or imprisonment of Conservatives for their political views, like the right has done countless times."

Chris Hedges has called for the silencing of Christians.

Read DemocraticUnderground and get some lovely eliminationist rhetoric.

"Thanks for racing to bottom to avoid and obfuscate the issue you raised. Your abject failure to inquire whether Mr. McCain condones hate speech by virtue of persons he has teamed with is duly noted."

At some point, the proof of the hate speech will be presented, right?

"Are you employed, sir."

Yup.

"You have commented at least a dozen times to these two posts."

You need to learn to count more accurately.

"Don't you have anything better to do than troll an abc news blog and feebly try to discredit other posters. Bush league stuff, laughable."

Well, I admittedly don't have the ability to troll as you do.

Notice I'm posting thoughts while you're obsessing over me? While I am admittedly honored by your infatuation with me, I can assure you, it is not a mutual thing.

"And conveniently ignoring in your contrived self-justification the far worse hate-filled rantings of McCain's bloggers..."

A single example of this would be peachy.

Notice that examples of Amanda's work has been cited.

"And will due respect, your brother says some pretty nasty things. Here he is wishing death upon Keith Olbermann"

Watching him make a fool of himself on television is not a wish for his death.

But, yeah, that's every inch as bad as what Amanda wrote, huh? Same thing.
-=Mike