Pushback

What a silly article by a reporter (?) whose animus toward Republicans is so long-established, and so intense, as almost to tag him with the bigotry of which he accuses Republicans. Yes, of course, Mr. Moran, Republicans can't abide Italians, Jews, Poles, Norwegians, Swedes, Catholics, Irish or any people other than White Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Tell that to Governors Volpe and Cellucci of Massachusetts, or Governors Del Sesto, DiPrete and Carcieri of Rhode Island. Or the Republican gubernatorial candidates in Connecticut in 1982-1990 (Rome, Belaga and Rowland), who were, respectively, a Jew, a Jew and an Irish Catholic. One could go on and on, but why bother? As soon as a commentator wheels out the "social construction" of race, you can be sure he has no actual argument.

Apparently Mr. Moran didn't do sufficient research--as many of you have pointed out--and for that he should be held accountable.

The main point of the piece, however, is in my opinion being missed by many of you.

I didn't take this as an effort to create a race-controversy around giuliani, but rather a satire attempting to point out the inanity of the alleged race-controversy surrounding obama.

I could be wrong, but that's what i took from it, and in that light it isn't nearly so useless, wasteful our offensive as many of you seem to claim.

I am not quite sure what to think of this. My first impression was, it must have been a slow news day. After I finally got through this artcle, I realized it sparked some thought which I assume was it's intent. When I finished thinking, I came to the revalation that it must have been a slow news day. I look longingly to the day when news outlets report news instead of trying to make it. What an expectedly terrible argument.

Yep, the Republican Party is full of nuthin' but a bunch of racists. Thanks once again for proving that there is absolutely no bias in the mainstream media, Terry.

Mr. Smith:

Apparently your brain cavity is a vacuum as it pertains to the history of the Southern Democrat and we must remember that the most beloved president ever is Republican Abraham Lincoln. Remember his Emancipation Proclamation.

I suggest a little research is prudent before you show your ignorance. You might want to research also Ex-Klansman Democrat Robert Byrd of West Virginia.

Whatever the case you either are ignorant or you are just simply a liar.

And no, I am not a Republican.

Terry, I guess you failed to notice that its been the Democrats not Republicans who've traditionally nominated the "whiter" candidate. Is there a whiter person in the world than Albert Gore Jr. or John F Kerry? The original JFK was clearly whiter than Richard Nixon (and so too were George McGovern and Hubert H Humphrey!). You may also remember Ronald Reagan "dutch" as a Republican ethnic who did ok with the parties base.

Easily the stupidest article or essay on which I've ever wasted five minutes...

Some significant errors in the article:

John Kerry is not Irish American. The name "Kerry" is not an Irish surname; it was a name contrived by his Central European grandparents when they came to the U.S.

The Republicans HAVE nominated a Catholic for national office. William E. Miller was nominated as Barry Goldwater's running mate for Vice President. Miller was Catholic and a graduate of Notre Dame University.

Moreover, President Reagan's father was Irish Catholic, making Reagan half-Irish and from a Catholic heritage. One member of his Cabinet called Reagan "A better Catholic than many I know"

Moran should know that given the extensive number of Republican office-holders throughout the country who are either Catholic or ethnic, it is only a matter of happenstance that few of them have made it to a national nomination. Guiliani's candidacy is a natural outgrowth of these demographics.

Good grief. Don't these excuses for journalists have anything else to do? White enough, black enough. Everything is race, not race. Can ABC PLEASE hire someone without an agenda or at least with half a brain.

Race, gender
Mormon contender
the boys of Bohemian Grove,
playin' Texas holdem'
in money-lender's clothes.

Who do the boys bow down to?
Moloch deals, but not to you.

So is it Moran or Moron? I've never been sure.

One would hope that a national journalist would be capable of something better than this inane drivel. And are you media liberals ever going to get over your morbid obsession with race?

Do we have to put up with foolishness like Terry Moran's post for the next two years?!?!! Only a member of the elite media would be concerned about whiteness and blackness. The voting public is looking for competence.

The accusations toward Mr. Moran in these blogs are interesting. He has been accused of being extreme left wing and extreme right wing. He has been complemented for his intelligence and blasted for his ignorance.

"Republicans have never nominated a Catholic for national office."

Hey, Terry: Ever heard of William E. Miller, Barry Goldwater's vice presidential running mate in 1964? Miller was a Catholic who attended parochial schools and graduated from Notre Dame University.

Jack A. was right; you all missed the point of the article. Where are reading comprehension skills when we need them? I personally think that the candidate should be selected on what he or she can do. But, I think the writer was saying that people are making such a big deal and will continue make such a big deal about Obama's race, or rather "lack of whiteness," which is what Americans are still preoccupied with in 2007. Yet, that same scrutiny about Guiliani's lack of full "whiteness" hasn't been focused on.

Race shouldn't matter, but the REALITY, for those with your heads in the sand, is that it is VERY important to most Americans. It's sad, because it let's you know where America really is on that issue. I don't want an incompetent President, regardless of race...but if he REALLY is good, don't let race be an obstacle.

As for the mention of Guiliani's Italian heritage, if you've ever gone to Italy, especially in the southern region, you'll find some VERY dark Italians, almost Black in complexion. Anyone who's read anything outside of what the American history books teaches knows that Moors (who were Northern Africans and BLACK, not White as people try to categorize them now), invaded Italy and Spain and mixed with some of them. Thus, the question of the Guiliani's Italian heritage. It's not to make an issue of it, but the point was to show how people were making a big deal about Obama's lack of whiteness and not Guiliani's.

And actually for those who are questioning the Poles, if you know your American history, you would know that there has been a gradual acceptance over time of who is White in America, Hispanics (those light enough to pass) being the recent semi-inductees. There's a prediction that Asians will be next.

Anyway, remember the rift between the British and the Irish and Scottish back in Great Britain (as it was named then)? Hey, some Irish and Scottish STILL despise the British. Well it continued to shores of America to the point that some Irish were so ostracized at first they worked alongside and even mixed with some Blacks. And the Eastern Europeans, who are STILL looked down upon by some other Europeans, were treated horribly. Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, Romanians, even Germans, were not initially accepted then. Some Norwegians recently said to my friend, when asked if they were Eastern European, "PLEASE don't mistake us for THOSE people!"

Next time please try conducting a bit more research before making such generalizations. Add Reagan to your "analysis" and your insipid theory is shot all to hell.

This piece is such a masterpiece of confusion it's hard to even know where to begin, but let's start with this: the question of Obama being 'black enough' is explicitly and solely addressing the following question: Is Obama's 'blackness' such that he will command the allegiance and the votes of virtually all African Americans? If the parallel with Giuliani were a legitimate one, we would have to be able to form a question with a corresponding syntactical structure, ie, Is Giuliani's 'whiteness' such that he will command the votes of virtually all...all what? Moran wants to say 'Republicans', but 'Republicans' aren't an ethnic group, they're a political party. In the sentence about Obama the object of the preposition is 'African Americans' - an ethnic group. You can't make the object of the prepostion an ethnic group (African Americans) when you're talking about Obama and then make it a politcal party (Republicans) when you're talking about Giuliani. This is intellectual dishonesty of a rather astonishing order for a piece that is supposedly news analysis. The piece is a shameful attempt to force someting that simply isn't there into existence.

Mr. Moran wrote: "So what does this have to do with Giuliani? He's a white guy, right? Well, yes and no. Who counts as white in America has been a fluid concept in our history, and Italians have only recently--and perhaps incompletely in some quarters--been admitted to the racial club."

As a 12th generation generation East Coast Wasp whose forefathers and mothers have been Republicans for several generations, and whose great-grandfather served in the Congress, I can say to Mr. Moran, whose persnickety Irishness appears to be getting the better of him, that there is no "racial club."

I've got four sisters. Pure wasp. They all married Italians.

We are not living in the fifties, Mr. Moran. Democrat stereotypes of huge racial animosities dividing ethnic and racial groups are exaggerated, or if they are not, they result from Democrats exploiting and exacerbating racial and ethnic differences.

Grow up, Mr. Moran.

Viva America!

The Catholic Church encouraged intermarriage among races throughout Latin America. As a result racial tensions among Hispanics is uncommon. The same is happening in the US today.

The WASP led GOP is cleaning house and making room for Hispanic Americans to feel at home. Evangelical (WASP) continue to make great effort to reach out to Hispanics on both sides of the border.

Jewish Americans continue to ensure that the media remains balance when discussing Hispanics undocumented workers.

McCain and Jeb Bush have earned the respect of Hispanic Americans and as a result a McCain/Bush ticket would be unbeatable in 2008.

May God bless and keep America

flores de la hoz

Man, how can ABC publish this crap.
Terry I see you will have a short, unglamorous and annoying career.

Hey oakeshott. Your a bigger moron than Moran. You argue that Dutch and German is "ethnic", but then say that "Anglo Saxon Protestants" are the only ones that can manage the country for the ethnics. Dutch and German are no longer WASP? You need a course in European history.
BTW, it seems the ethnics did a pretty good job protecting the country in WWII. I wounder which side you would have supported?

Martin Luther King's most famous quote was his desire for people to be judged for the content of their character and not the color of their skin.

Character is important for bloggers also.

Does white-ness really get you somewhere in life..sometimes I think white does..sometimes I think that Italians can persue advantages also..concerning How White is White??..if one admits that some people just have no class at all(morals-law abiding-intelligence)..then white/black is fairly even..but when your looking into the eyes of your potential passenger in lifes road..I think you just might want to see very certain-traits..and these are Multi-Racial here in America/I think the world sees our travels in this manner-they just don't have that "enough"-stuff..How mixing white-into-white might make one a more advantagious person/??..haven't really seen that in my 53-years..and actually see the reverse of a better "mouse-trap"..I think there is a large body of "no-nothings" travelling the American road of family..Skin Color is short sightedness..and the other side of this arguement is "involvement"..between the two-(twain)..major involvement..both raciually/sexiually..that life takes on and leaves behing-->>the Invisible man.

Terry,
You pose an interesting question although your argument in fact and presumption is filled with holes and inaccuracies, the question is interesting none the less. The way your article is constructed seems backwards, taking a conclusion and building backwards to make a sloppy fit. I think by doing so you leave yourself open to charges of surgical political hacksmenship. All that being said, I’m glad you asked the question only from a sociological perspective. I am an American of Italian decent, not an Italian American. My parents are Italian American being born in Italy and coming here to make a beautiful life. I’m 49 and have grown up and have lived in New York my entire life, the bastion of progressive and so called enlightened tolerant democrat America. I’m aware of what it’s like to be an “In the middle American” and have seen it and felt it all my life. The greatest difference between the Bi-Coast Lefties and the Vast middle American Right is ONLY one of expression. The “white folk” of the south and mid west see me as an Eye-talian and are open about it and not condescending in speaking with me. They just don’t have much experience or 1 on 1 exposure and get much of their knowledge from TV, thank you Saprano’s….. But my life and experience in New York has been vastly different by comparison. Sort of the Malcolm in the middle of the ethnic melting pot. I was looked at as “well not as bad as the Puerto Ricans” and “better to have them then the blacks”. This is right out of the mouths of so called “progressive” people, to this freakin day. That is when they don’t know I’m an American of Italian decent. Just as they do to the Gays, the Blacks and the Latinos. It’s honestly bizarre and shocking to me to see what comes out of these self touting tolerant society types when they think there with “their own”. I would rather be asked if I’m “Eye-Talian” because he ain’t never seen one to my face than looked at as a “Greasy Ginny, is he in the Mafia” by an Enlightened sort behind my back.
It was not so long ago, during WW2 that Italians were also rounded up and put into “were not so sure about you camps” they were brought in and questioned, sent off to things like grounds keeping, masonry work and menial labor on both costs. Look it up. My parents would tell me about seeing them working and going back to camp at the end of the day.
So for me when I have to fill out those stupid federal and state forms where I need to declare race, well it’s never a clear choice to me. And I love when I can check “Other”.
Now, to be sure, we as decedents of Italy have some part to play in this less than 100% integration. We fiercely defend and protect our customs and heritage. We also for centuries have looked at life with a long game view. Italy, Rome, has been both conquered and conqueror many times over history, LONG history. It has a bizarre political system sometimes communist, socialist, a dictatorship, capitalist, empire, slayer and enslaved. But it’s also one of the birthplaces of democracy. The Italian people have by necessity become flexible and tolerant. “Yea, yea, OK you’re the communists and your in charge of the politics. Give it 50 or 100 years somebody else will be, want some bread and wine?” The culture is what makes up the Italian people, not the place.