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A 'Danger to Himself' But Can Still Buy a Gun
April 19, 2007 6:28 PM
An employee of Roanoke Firearms, where Seung-Hui Cho purchased his weapon, told
ABC news that Cho "answered no" to the question regarding his mental
history. Under state law he told the truth, but under federal law he
lied.
Even though Cho was detained for two days in a mental institution, ordered by a Virginia judge to undergo outpatient treatment and labeled "a danger to himself," he checked "No" when asked if he'd ever been adjudicated mentally defective or committed to a mental institution on the application to purchase the 9 mm handgun used in the massacre at Virginia Tech.
Ironically, under Virginia's lax gun laws even a person who has been determined by a court to be a danger to himself and ordered to undergo outpatient treatment can buy a gun.
THE BLOTTER RECOMMENDS
The judge who issued the order was not required to enter Cho into a state database to raise any red flags. Judge Paul Barnett, who signed the order, told ABC News he didn't have to report Cho to state authorities because he did not determine that Cho needed inpatient treatment.
Donna Tate, the program manager for the Virginia State Police, told ABC News that Virginia enforces both state and federal gun laws and has its own database, but does not participate in the federal database because its state database covers both. Tate wouldn't comment on Cho's specific case because it is "an open criminal investigation."
Click Here for Full Blotter Coverage.
Federal requirements are stricter than Virginia's, and the criteria used to determine whether or not a person has been declared mentally incompetent is broader. Cho's order would have been flagged under federal background check gun laws, but not in Virginia, according to Josh Horowitz of the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.
"It's a criminal check only," says Horowitz. "Under federal law, there's 10 prohibited categories, including addicted to a controlled substance, immigration status, mental incapacity."
Horowitz calls Virginia's background checks "instant." "There's no registration requirement; there's no enhanced background check; there's no waiting period," he said.
Virginia only requires that potential gun buyers be 21 if purchasing from a licensed handgun store and have no criminal record.
"There's other states who have some transparency in their gun sales. Virginia has none of that," says Horowitz. "Virginia is 'let's sell it to somebody and let's not find out anything about them.'"
Ellen Davis contributed to this report.
April 19, 2007 | Permalink | User Comments (33)
Please. If America is going to snivel (again) about the coverage of the VT killer perhaps you should do what I've done for the past few days. Change the channel. Some of us are tired of it while others are fascinated. I'm fascinated by the amount of whining going on because the right to free press and free speech is being questioned. I love my country and the liberties we used to have.
Posted by: Gardner | Apr 19, 2007 7:00:10 PM
please let the family have closure and back off with constant reminder of that awful day you are just making him a ##### PERSON please have some compasion
Posted by: DEBBIE | Apr 19, 2007 7:04:09 PM
Our thoughts and prayers go out to all at VT.
Yes, I'm tired of the excess coverage given to the killer. The press and all of us need to label the SOB for what he is - A COWARD. It's time to show his image only with COWARD boldly stamped across his face.
Talk about sending a message to copy cats!!
Saddened but mad in CT
Posted by: Walt CT | Apr 19, 2007 7:08:58 PM
The pictures of the victims is what should be broadcasted. It puts a face on where our prayers should be for the families. I agree not to show the killers insane ramblings. It seems to glorify his actions.
Posted by: donna webb | Apr 19, 2007 7:15:08 PM
Mentally Defective
First I would like to extend my deepest apologies to the families of the victims. We just buried my mother in law Tuesday.
I am outraged that the name “Mentally Defective” is being smeared all over the airwaves. Are you purposely provoking the “Mentally Ill”?
These people already feel that they are not “normal”. And as a whole we the “Mentally Perfect” have forever shunned speaking about, learning about, reaching out to or providing acquit treatment for the Mentally Ill.
Just last week here in Michigan a Bi Polar man walked into his last place of employment and shot several people and killed one.
This employer knew that he had attempted suicide several times in the past two years; his wife had left him two weeks prior, he had financial problems and was struggling to keep himself together. So, the day before Good Friday, they fired their Defective employee. Knowing that he was mentally ill.
Why not get that man to a mental hospital, give him a leave of absence and with hope that when he had recovered they would reevaluate his returning?
Posted by: Jackie | Apr 19, 2007 8:29:10 PM
Let's call a spade a spade. When is ABC going to start reporting accurately. The laws are in place to prevent the wrong people from getting their hands on firearms. Instead, in this case, everyone was trying to be "sensitive" and protect this moron. He should have been put into an institution. There were several opportunities to avert this in the years leading up to this tragedy. The judge, university police, and administration failed the student body of Virginia Tech.
Posted by: H.C. | Apr 19, 2007 9:48:22 PM
I would hope that common decency would prevail regarding publication of the movies left by the offender in the VT murders. News media are probably afraid that they will be scooped by their competitors but I think that news managers should realize the story is still compelling wo the film/movies left by the killer. Isn't the publicity what he was looking for?
Posted by: Tom Fuller | Apr 19, 2007 10:01:38 PM
Why is it so shocking that this "mentally ill" person was permitted to buy guns? Our health system is so archaic and backwards that victims are denied their rights and go unnoticed until AFTER such a tragedy. This comes from first-hand knowledge. As an adult survivor of a paranoid schizophrenic, bi-polar, alcoholic parent, my family lived in hell for 3 decades. The health system's "revolving door" gave her ample rights to abuse so many for so long- unspeakable things- in all forms of imaginable horrors. She was always savvy enough to know that, when in-patient, she knew she could get out if she "played their game", yet would refuse counseling, meds, etc., upon release, no matter how we pleaded. BLAME? The archaic, backwards system that buried their head in the sand and denied this maniac's victims the right to live their precious lives. It is time someone steps up to fix this bloody mess they call a "health system"- the facility that released this mental case without ANY follow up nor notification of local and federal authorities should hang their heads in SHAME. It is a downright LIE to claim there is no $ available to set up a system for the mentally unstable, "imminent danger" cases to be released "ROR" when their is plenty cash in the coffers to fly, wine, dine, and otherwise waste away tax-payers $. My heart aches for all the victims. My mind asks "WHY?" - why did the family not seek help, why, again, did that damn facility deem this being "an imminent danger", yet not detain him? This is sickening. May God be with all those who now suffer, may He also PLEASE guiode those in authority to STEP UP, take responsiblity, make a change, before more victims are tallied.
Posted by: Chelli Byrd | Apr 20, 2007 12:08:35 AM
The world needs to know how to watch and reach out to the mentally ill. It is a disease that is here to stay. Some newspapers say Cho was autistic, not just depressed. There is much to learn from this tragedy. First lesson, gun controls pls. Second, the mentally ill is seldom violent to others, mainly only to themselves. Third, stop the media circus.
Posted by: Care | Apr 20, 2007 5:15:38 AM
Its time to get on with it I think both sides of thr dtory need to be told.
Posted by: Don Tanner | Apr 20, 2007 8:00:32 AM
First of all I don't believe the media should bow to the feedback on this issue. There is a 'FIRST AMENDMENT', isn't there? Saying that, I don't think the media should have fired Don Imus, and yes, the MEDIA fired Don, regardless of how hurtful he was and on the other have Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson on time and time again as if these individuals have some credibility.
The major media companies are hypocritical because of their agenda driven focus. It wasn't more than 4 hours after the rampage that gun bans were brought up, the repeal of the assualt weapons ban and how that has contributed to this, and on and on and on. And you guys see yourselves as so jounalists; intellectuals...it's so sad it borders laughable. How many times was the MANIAC refered to as the 'SHOOTER'
or the 'GUNMAN'. Talk about subliminal!! So you call this journalism? How about the idea that the news 'COMPANIES' don't want to show the American people the downing of the World Trade Centers...'TOO PAINFUL' for everyone...yet talk about how 'THE CHILDREN' and how will they cope with the vision of the 'GUNMAN' imbedded in their minds all the while showing him with pistols in his hands ranting like the maniac that he was. The ratings and the money and the propaganda tool is too valuable to pass on. It helps the effort to take the firearms from the citizens(because that will make us all safe)and promotes the ideals of a few.
The net effect of firearms is never revealed by evidence of the amount of negative reporting on firearms. It's in the news every day; murder here, murder there, rape with the use of a firearm, bank robbery with a gun. I challenge you out there that watch the news regularly to document the times that firearms are reported in a positive outcome in comparison to the reports that are negative.
I have no degree in journalism but as far as I can tell there aren't many that do.
Every one take care of you and yours.
Regards,
American Ron
Posted by: Ron Nehus | Apr 20, 2007 10:22:37 AM
If we are going to hear extensive reports about students such as this, I think we should take profile 10 students on campas that are doing great things.
Posted by: wwwmkw | Apr 20, 2007 10:47:16 AM
"Cho's order would have been flagged under federal background check gun laws, but not in Virginia"
And that is a lie and he knew it when he said it. The federal law is the one that counts here. A state can not make the law less strict than the federal law.
Posted by: Paige | Apr 20, 2007 11:25:27 AM
/signed Ron Nehus' post
Every word rings true
Posted by: JelloBiafra | Apr 20, 2007 1:11:45 PM
this vt massacre woke america up from slumber.bring back God Almighty,the Bible,the prayer in every school of america.the 9-1-1 woke up america ..a few months later america went back to sleep again...and now it's awake again.churches nationwide will be filled again this sunday.america hasn't learned yet.
Posted by: maria | Apr 20, 2007 5:01:47 PM
Maybe there's more to all this than people care to remember.
Consider watching this from the FDA advisory hearings of 1991.
Brought to you by the Citizens Commission on Human Rights
http://www.cchr.org/index.cfm/19863
Posted by: Chris | Apr 20, 2007 6:26:29 PM
Ask yourself why NOBODY is allowed to carry a licensed gun into a venue where a high-ranking US public official is speaking. If 'guns don't kill people, and people kill people', then why would the Secret Service mind, for instance, if someone who has gone through the legal process to rightfully carry a handgun brings their gun with them to a speech by the president, or vice-present? The answer, my friends, is quite simple. The Secret Service KNOWS that guns are inherently dangerous. The question I have is, if that reasoning is good enough for the protection of a president, then why isn't it good enough for the American people? Why should all of us be exposed to every gun enthusiast who wants to own a gun when in fact that same gun enthusiast would be immediately arrested for even attempting to carry his gun near a high-ranking US official.
Posted by: Eric | Apr 20, 2007 7:07:34 PM
In reading through the extensive coverage of all facets of this tragic incident, two things stand out in my mind. Number one, the complete ignorance of the Judge involved, or just a complete failure to perform his duties in a professional manner. (becoming more and more prevalent). And the reliance on a "mental health professional". That in and of itself says volumes. There is no such thing as a "mental health professional". Mental health in this country is about one step above Voodoo practiced by many in the third world countries. "If we can't fix them, medicate them". That is why we have so many school children are walking around like Zombies, passed from grade to grade and sent out into the world with out even the most rudimentary skills.
Posted by: viper | Apr 20, 2007 7:25:28 PM
Not take away from the victims and their families, just the next day over 170 people died in Iraq with 1 bomb....thats nearly 5 times the number at Virginia Tech....my point being all life is precious and we should feel the same equal amount of mourning and concern for life regardless if its here or there.
Posted by: Aaron C | Apr 20, 2007 9:02:42 PM
Aaron C -- very good point. The NRA goon-types and their false logic would have everyone believe that an armed population makes everyone safer. In fact, the opposite is true. Iraq is a prime example. The US military has several programs in place to CONFISCATE guns from the Iraqi public. The military knows what's up.
The common citizen should not be allowed to handle a gun off of their private property. A licensed gun owner cannot bring his gun into a venue where a high-ranking US official is speaking (as I described above). There's a very good reason for this -- guns in the hands of human beings are dangerous. Period. The US military understands this, the Secret Service understands this, everyone undersands this except the minority of conservative goons and their lobbysts at the NRA.
There should be one universal gun-free zone, and that is, everywhere except one's own private property.
Posted by: Eric | Apr 20, 2007 9:22:51 PM
Did you watch the news today? Another "responsible law-abiding" gunman entered NASA and shot somebody...............
Maybe they will say was because guns were not allowed in NASA and they could not defend themselves.
Posted by: Angelo | Apr 20, 2007 11:05:00 PM
It's time to remember that SOME human beings are more dangerous than others. The majority of us don't have it in for our fellow humans. But there are a few who want to harm the rest of us.
I have a right to protect myself and my family. In my state, I have a legal right to carry a gun, in public, concealed.
If you want to make your home a gun-free zone, go ahead. But the rest of us have a constitutional right to own and carry guns to defend ourselves.
And that is a fact, not false logic.
Posted by: RW Stephens | Apr 21, 2007 10:57:07 AM
Compassion for all touched by this tragedy! Will an autopsy be done to rule out a tumor or other pathology which could cause such behavior? Every day everywhere violence, abuse, and tragedy touch those on this Earth. Pray for all and for yourself.
Posted by: Spirit Mountain | Apr 21, 2007 12:44:22 PM
RW Stephens said: " In my state, I have a legal right to carry a gun, in public, concealed"
Neither your state government, nor the federal government, will allow you to carry your handgun into a venue where a high-ranking elected US official is speaking. Even though you are fully licensed to own and carry your gun, and without a criminal record, you cannot carry it anywhere near a high ranking US official. The reason for this is obvious, and that is, no human being can, or should, be trusted with a concealed weapon in public. This very reasonable law is in place to protect against high ranking US officials from being harmed.
Why aren't you upset that the government doesn't trust you in this situation? Furthermore, why should anyone ELSE in the public trust you if neither the government, nor the Secret Service, nor anyone else who matters trust you? I certainly don't want anyone carrying their concealed weapon anywhere NEAR me. However, since I am not an elected high-ranking US official, I am unfairly exposed to such dangers.
Posted by: Eric | Apr 21, 2007 7:16:14 PM
I feel really sad about the education system in our so call,"well developed and civilized countries, particualarly in the West where I have been experiencing by myself and my teenage son. Most educational institutes emphases/ glorify the success of the best result in academic knowledge, sound developments in economy, science & technology rather than how to live happily, harmonously and wisely. If most educational institutes ignore the development of the students'emotional aspect,for sure, these kinds of tragidies will keep happening again and again. Isn't it the high time to reflect something is going terriblily wrong in our modern education system?
Posted by: Koon Lin | Apr 22, 2007 1:57:30 PM
Gosh Eric, tell me if you feel good around Dianne Feinstein or Barbara Boxer them nuts carry guns along with many others, how about Rosy O' think she is ok? What make you or anyone else safe on this side of the fence, try again. Look what they did in Katrina's aftermath, took all the guns away and the criminals had a ball, had to call in the National Guard ( sure hope they had bullets this time) As I have said before it's better to die armed defending yourself against crime then to die defenseless and just be a unarmed victim. The strong always are there to protect the weak. Go see "300" it should make you feel better.
Please don't yell" Horray for King George" too much, but look for the ship loaded with "tea"
Bring back the Gas Chamber and use it, crime WILL DROP!!!!
Posted by: Dale | Apr 22, 2007 11:07:48 PM
Dale
I hope for you, you will find a place where you don't have to live with this fear. They excist. You will feel much better, less stress and anger.
Posted by: dutch | Apr 23, 2007 11:56:45 PM
I'm actually glad 'dale' brought up '300' - because in that movie it clearly shows that the men having weapons are all soldiers.
Because only soldiers and police should be alowed to carry.
Death penalty to drop crime ? - it is evident that not a single country in the world has ever been able to lower crime with death penalty - or is 'dale' referring to Iraq, Afghanistan or China as his model country.....?
Crime as a figure is a socio-economic function that will rise and fall with the success of the relevant society.
Maniacs shooting s a result of a numbed society and ready access to lethal weapons with high capacity for murder.
Posted by: Raid | Apr 24, 2007 2:47:13 AM
Right now there a lot of people posting up threats all over. I really think this tradgedy caused all of this. I can't imagine schools being closed down for hours just because of these jokes, but it's good people take it seriously now. Just hope that there won't be another incident like this.
Posted by: UNKNOWN | Apr 25, 2007 11:22:17 AM
I am so horrified that Cho got away with all that he did it really disgusts me that his sick plan worked out. I don't think there should be blame on the people who sold them the gun, the fact of the matter is it was used. I am just at a lost for words when i think about this tradgety, the fact that innocent students were robbed of their education, and raped of their privacy. I wish more than anything the law could have atleast killed him just because he decided when he wanted to die as well as the others fate. i am deeply depressed and i seriously wonder what this world has come to... its made me question if the good will ever again prevail.
VICTOMS your in my heart and prayers forever your legacy will live on!
Posted by: Raechel | Apr 25, 2007 7:44:06 PM
I am so horrified that Cho got away with all that he did it really disgusts me that his sick plan worked out. I don't think there should be blame on the people who sold them the gun, the fact of the matter is it was used. I am just at a lost for words when i think about this tradgety, the fact that innocent students were robbed of their education, and raped of their privacy. I wish more than anything the law could have atleast killed him just because he decided when he wanted to die as well as the others fate. i am deeply depressed and i seriously wonder what this world has come to... its made me question if the good will ever again prevail.
VICTOMS your in my heart and prayers forever your legacy will live on!
Posted by: Raechel | Apr 25, 2007 7:45:21 PM
I think you need to pay closer attention to the movie, the children were taken away from the family at a pre-teen age and was taught the art of war for years. That was their service to Sparta, after their service they could stay in the Sparta’s Army or return to work, so everyone was a solider, you fail to mention the 1200 who (farmers) where to watch the pass behind the 300 which they abandoned there post to protect the city.
After the slaughter at the pass, please tell where they got 10,000 in the army to fight and destroy Persian army?
Man has been using deadly weapons since he came out of the trees, if not guns it would be what, bow n arrows? having a three strike law that is a deterrent, these criminals know if they get to the third its a good 25 years for them and crime has gone down every year for the last 5 years, if knowing that there is a gas chamber waiting for criminals.....and it would be used would makes them think, it stops crime ( do the crime pay the time).
Can you say there was less crime in the 40's 50's 60's were had the death penalty and used it.
Those who do not learn from the past are destined to repeat it.
Posted by: Dale | Apr 26, 2007 2:35:41 AM
(I hope everybody's realising that "300" is just a movie - based on a comic, again based on an ancient greek's propagandistic writings)
The trouble is that when criminals knoew that the gas chamber is waiting they will often choose a shoot-out with the police.
It is a well known fact that harsher punishment does not bring crime down - the only thing that does that is good economics, low unemployment, education.
Shorter or longer jail-sentences or death-penalty
does not scare the career criminal.
When that is said i do believe that repeat-offenders are put away - but that is in the interest of the victims and the general protection of the society.
Posted by: Raid | Apr 26, 2007 5:56:26 AM
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