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Guns Make Schools Safer, Gun Group Says
April 17, 2007 4:16 PM
The tragic shooting at Virginia Tech underscores the need to allow weapons on campus, according to the leader of a pro-gun group, but a leading public policy expert questions that conclusion.
"The latest school shooting demands an immediate end to the gun-free zone law which leaves the nation's schools at the mercy of madmen," said Larry Pratt, executive director of the Virginia-based Gun Owners of America, in a statement e-mailed to the media Tuesday.
Not so fast, says David Hemenway, a gun control policy expert, professor of health policy at Harvard School of Public Health and director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center.
"There's not a lot of evidence one way or the other about gun-free zones," Hemenway told ABC News. "We do know that where there's more guns, there's lots more death. There's more homicides, more suicides, more gun death."
But the Gun Owners of America leader cited facts and statistics to back up his claim. "All the school shootings that have ended abruptly in the last ten years were stopped because a law-abiding citizen -- a potential victim -- had a gun," he asserted in his statement.
Click Here for Full Blotter Coverage.
"That's just not right at all," Hemenway said and began reeling off nearly a dozen school shootings and how they ended. "Moses Lake [Washington], a 14-year-old honors student, opens fire in algebra class. He stopped when he was tackled by a teacher...West Paducah, Ky., a 14-year-old kills three students and wounds five others at a prayer group. He drops the pistol when he's approached by a principal and another student. No gun involved," said Hemenway.
And in perhaps the most infamous school shooting before yesterday, the killers at the 1999 Columbine High School massacre took their own lives with the guns they'd used to kill 25 others, hours before a SWAT team stormed the building.
But Pratt had more, "Not far from Virginia Tech, a killer was stopped at the Appalachian School of Law when two students were able to go off campus to their vehicles and get their guns which they used to subdue the killer. Sadly, not even that awkward defense was available at Virginia Tech."
Hemenway said he knew the instance well. "That's the one they always talk about, it's interesting," he told ABC News. In that case, Hemenway said, the killer stopped shooting because he ran out of ammo. The two men who subdued him were off-duty policemen who grabbed not only their guns, but bulletproof vests and handcuffs.
What about examples where allowing guns on campus seems to work? "Isn't it interesting that Utah and Oregon are the only two states that allows faculty to carry guns on campus," Pratt said in his statement, "[and] you haven't read about any school or university shootings in Utah or Oregon?"
Perhaps, Hemenway said. On the other hand, "I don't know of any school shootings in Massachussets, where we have strict gun control laws."
School shootings are -- thankfully -- rare, noted Hemenway. The question public officials must ask is whether having more guns makes Americans more safe. Hemenway said statistics show that in general, firearms don't mix well with colleges, known for combustible elements like heavy drinking and romantic complications. "People get drunk, people get angry, they're going to use their guns."
April 17, 2007 | Permalink | User Comments (128)
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What a bunch of lunatics!!!!
Posted by: Mike hunt | Apr 17, 2007 4:31:43 PM
Carry all the time. Cause when seconds count, the police are mintues away. In this case, hours away.
This could have be stopped if some of the teachers and responsible students had been allowed to carry.
The wolf had was free to kill the sheep because the sheep took away the sheepdogs ability to protect the sheep.
The sheep forgot that the wolf is still out their waiting and they became afraid of the sheepdog.
Stupid sheep!!!
Posted by: NavajoGO | Apr 17, 2007 4:32:43 PM
Hemenway could not be further from the truth in this article. Ironically, Hemenway was not able to cite any sources backing up his claim that more firearms equals more violence. In fact, the exact opposite has been proven true time and time again. The FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, published yearly, give clear, accurate, correct statistics supporting the fact that states with fewer firearm restrictions and less restrictive CCL legislation experience LESS violent crime. Whether the crime was related to a firearm or not, the rates are lower as compared to states with more restrictions and bans.
Take a look at Florida, according to the FBI, once Florida passed legislation allowing concealed weapon permits, the state homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below. Go look for yourself, that is, unless you are afraid the results of your research prove gun-grabbers are wrong and their statements unfounded.
Posted by: Nate | Apr 17, 2007 4:34:36 PM
The anti gunners have to get their head out of the sand, and see the world as it actually is.
These poor students were easy prey to a man armed with a gun, and knowing that guns were prohibited on campus.
The solution to these school shootings, is not the fetal positions that the victims must assume now days, but a two handed shooting stance with their LEGAL conceal carry firearm aimed at the intruder.
Eric
Minnesota
Posted by: Eric Marleau | Apr 17, 2007 4:41:11 PM
Massachusetts have the strictest gun laws but have had the highest increase in gun deaths since the laws were passed. There's been an explosion of murders in Boston & Dorchester since then.
Posted by: XYZ | Apr 17, 2007 4:53:15 PM
I question the claim that more guns in the area may mean more violence. But if it's true, are these legaly obatined guns? How do they find out how many guns are in an area? Are the numbers provided after police seize them or is it someone on the street conducting a poll and asking people if they have a gun? The coverage buy all of the news orginizations on this part of the story has been very poor. There are more important things to be thinking about than gun control right now.
Posted by: Dan | Apr 17, 2007 4:53:56 PM
You bet. It made VT very safe indeed
Ah so its freedom to kill. What demented logic!!!!!!! No wonder US is acting like a cowboy around the world. Its home grown
Its seems to me that this result of American gun culture. I have no sympathy. What about Iraq? Does the western media do a wall to wall live coverage of killings in Iraq where hundreds get killed including children. Its a shame that we place more value on American lives than Iraqi lives
We should be ashamed of our so called western values
Posted by: Anil | Apr 17, 2007 4:54:20 PM
I think the columnist gave too much time to Hemenway's thoughts, by comparison Mr. Pratt.
This is common sense to me. If you're a criminal, particularly a cowardly one, ready to prey on children and the defensless, not wanting to face a formidable opponent, where are you going to go to do your damage? Somewhere that you know you will face the least resistance, like 'gun free zone schools'
If you know that the of-age-legal students, older adult students, faculty, peripheral staff, all are unarmed, then you figure you can go for awhile with little resistance.
Posted by: karz | Apr 17, 2007 4:57:22 PM
Hemenway's book on gun violence is the single best source out there. Some of the confused folks posting here would do well to read it. It is long since time for rational gun policy in this country.
Posted by: One of the Million Moms | Apr 17, 2007 5:32:32 PM
It's so sad waking up in the morning and hearing yet another record has been broken many young victims lives have been taken away and the shooting rates keep rising an all-time high... But yet thats what we keep hearing on the news in canada and around the world. "ONLY IN AMERICA" you have the right to carry a gun? don't ask just shoot and ask questions later.. Canada where the shooting rate is unheard of, and if there is a shooting, it usually relates back to a gang from New york. But if you were to ask an American citizen who's their to blame and point fingers they would most likely say something about the large multicultural society, but then you can look at a city of Toronto where 2.5 million and surrounding are of 6 million live and is the worlds largest multicultural city in the world. where could you even find a gun in canada? simply guns are just not aloud in Canada.
Posted by: Craig Phillips | Apr 17, 2007 5:42:52 PM
There's no nice way to say it: Prof. David Hemenway is a liar. It is simply irrefutable that those states and cities with weak gun control laws have less crime and fewer murders than those that don't. Those with tough controls, like DC, New York, Baltimore, etc. have much higher rates of homicide. States with higher per-capita legal gun ownership have lower crime rates, not higher, and the same goes for those state that allow concealed weapons permits. Prof. Hemenway must know this, and so he must be a liar.
Posted by: David Lampo | Apr 17, 2007 5:43:27 PM
Craig Phillips: Are you not even aware that Canada has had five school shootings since 1975. And yet you ask, where would one find a gun in Canada?? Are you a complete idiot?
Posted by: David Lampo | Apr 17, 2007 5:47:37 PM
Lets see how many ways ABC can slant this against responsible gun ownership. Great job on flipping the lack of CCW on-campus as Rick Boucher's fault.
ABC, you are a joke. But thank you for the laughs.
Posted by: Daniel | Apr 17, 2007 5:54:15 PM
You know what is rediculous? That all of your are so quick to blame one another and to argue with eachother. Instead of doing this we need to come together and make a change in our world. There have been many tragedies in the United States and instead of fighting with eachother, we should be coming together. Maybe this could help our world be a better place. We have so much going for us if only we could get along and come together.
Posted by: Selena | Apr 17, 2007 6:06:24 PM
Sorry, I have no intention of putting my safety in someone elses hands EVER again. When I was in college at Penn State, me and a couple friends got held up at gun point and we could do nothing but sit there and pray. Afterwards, we went and told the cops, ...just like we were supposed to... they promptly ignored us. Now I have a permit to carry. ...F the lazy cops
Posted by: Holly | Apr 17, 2007 6:14:38 PM
the blood on the murdered victims are not yet dried and you guys are already arguing about guns....shame on you
Posted by: george | Apr 17, 2007 6:15:24 PM
like i said if everyone was aloud to carry guns it would equalize the playing field....guns are the equalizer of all men and the sound of freedom.
For example in countries like Mexico guns are completly illegal, yet theres still gun crime.
Posted by: Aaron C | Apr 17, 2007 6:18:47 PM
No school shootings in Oregon? Anyone remember Kip Kinkel who shot up his Springfield, OR high school? Sorry, but your statistic, like your logic, is full of holes.
Posted by: jackson1 | Apr 17, 2007 6:38:44 PM
I just don't understand how some people can seriously believe that strict governmental control of firearms will stop violence, or even prevent guns from being acquired and carried--- by criminals or by otherwise law-abiding individuals. What naivety. What absolute wide-eyed idealism. Weed is illegal, crack is illegal, etc. But how easy is it to get? Tremendously easy. And who do you think will be the main people that will be willing to have illegal weapons? Criminals. Isn't that just so bleeding obvious? This whole incident is an example of the reality of these ideas. One person with two guns can kill 32 unarmed, defenseless people with no opposition. To carry on the gun-control logic, we should take the weapons away from our military, in order to end all war. Nevermind that all enemies of this country won't abide by those rules.
Insanity.
Posted by: Gregory | Apr 17, 2007 6:45:04 PM
This is neither a pro-gun or anti-gun statement, I'm just interested to hear what people have to say. Why is it that the US is so much more violent than other 1st world countries? Yes, I know that violent acts occur in the UK, Japan, etc..., but at a MUCH lower rate. And please don't mention a 3rd world country like Somalia as a comparison. I am talking developed nations only. What is it with the American culture that makes us so different?
Posted by: Aaron | Apr 17, 2007 7:06:15 PM
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