Shouldn't this tell us something? Wake up America.

I would very much like to know WHEN the handguns were purchased from this dealer and the timespan between the purchase and this sad incident.

Watching tonight's (4/17/07) broadcast from Brian Ross (in prime time) I failed to hear when the firearm was purchased. All that was mentioned was the relative 'ease' with which one can be bought in the state of Virginia.

I implore you, Brian, to please report the entire story regarding these purchases in a prime time broadcast (not GMA, Nightline, etc.).

Thank you.

I live in Kentucky, and yesterday (with no idea about the shootings) bought a pair of 9mm glocks at the same time with 300 rounds of ammo, and 4 extra magazines. The sale went just like the other 15 times I have bought a hand gun....fill out a form, show ID, get a 60 seconds background check and then walk out of the store with my 2 glocks and ammo. This is not uncommon at all. BTW I am a CCW license holder and I believe everyone should always carry a handgun to stop things like this from happening.

P.S. It is terrible what happened to those people at VA Tech. My condolences go out to their families. That loser had plenty of other options to deal with his options rather than do what he did.

what is being done about all this?????? the columbine shooting,
911??????? and now this Virgina Tech shooting???????? how many more people have to be killed??? until there going to tighten up on secruity??????
this world is heading for world hate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If America made gun ownership illegal like most other developed countries, it would save thousands of lives every year.

How can pro-gun supporters live with themselves?

My brother has six Chevy dealerships. There have been many cars and trucks sold at his dealerships over the years that have been involved in accidents that have resulted in deaths.

Should we close him down?
Maybe we should ban Chevrolets?

You know, now that I think about it, if we didn't have jet airliners, the Arabs could not have flown them into the twin towers. Maybe we should ban jet airliners?

How many deaths does the national Safety Counsel attribute to firearms every year? Did you know they rank BEHIND the following in order of the numbers of deaths caused: 1) Motor vehicles 2) Falls 3) Poisoning 4) Drowning 5) Choaking 6) Fires/burns ?

Hey!!! If you really want to save lives like you gun banners claim, why don't you do something about those first six leading causes of accidental death?

And while you are at it, why not do something really swell like ban cancer? You'll be about as effective banning it as you will banning firearms.

Rosa: it is definitely time for you to "head back home," wherever that may be.

Then Howard says "If America made gun ownership illegal like most other developed countries, it would save thousands of lives every year."

But Howard apparently does not see the news that criminals are running amok in the UK and Australia, since their governments confiscated firearms, and sometimes knives, from the law-abiding, leaving a risk-free work environment for crooks.

We have had gun control laws in the USA only since the 1960s, and in that period of time, the criminal use of firearms has increased exponentially.

It's pretty obvious that at the very least "gun control" does not work, and entirely possible that "gun control" has exacerbated the crime & violence here.

LOL! So people who are against weapons are liberal?!

I'm happy to live in a part of the world were its impossible to buy a gun in 15 minutes. Its also not possible in an hour. You know what? There are no gunshops at all! And you know also what? We don't have those massacres! We don't have so many murders! We don't have...

For sure there is crime here. But also for sure only a criminal carries a gun.

Its a shame it never appeared to you there is a relation between guns and killings. Luckly people here in Europe understand that better.

If 1/4 the population carried Glock 9's, concealed and with special permits for an elite safety force, we would protect our citizens and not wait for an over extended police force to respond. If you're not part of elite and you have no permit, you go to jail. Clean out the gun, drug infested communities. Only those with an outstanding past would be considered. For example President Bush - NO.

I was sick listening to GW talk to the student when he's started the biggest blood bath in History.

Thanks for making everyones point Joid. Only the criminals have guns in your country. That is precicely what happened at VT. I don't trust my safety to anyone but myself.

I would rather be beaten up and robbed, than shot down and THEN robbed, because the criminal had a reason to assume that i might carry a gun - up-gunning only intensifies the violence and the career-criminals will be at least one step ahead (of even the police sometimes).

It is true that for at determined person it is posible to kill with all kinds of items, blunt instruments, knives, cars, etc. but a 32-casualty massacre WOULD NOT have been the case if Cho Seung-hui had been running around with a baseball-bat, restricted from more effective weapons by a responsible law.

ABC News is extremely anti-gun and it shows. "Roanoke Firearms ... has a history of selling guns which have ended up being involved in murders." - what an inflammatory sentence. They continue: "John Markell, the owner of the gun shop, told ABC News it is the fifth time a gun sold in his store has been used in a homicide."

What ABC News carefully neglects to tell you is that other reports say that this store has sold 160,000 guns over the last few years, so 5 homicide guns is a very small number, compared to the large number that are being used safely and legally for self-protection.

Virginia Tech had created a "gun-free" zone full of unarmed victims. From Wikipedia:
--Begin quote--
Virginia Tech has a policy forbidding unauthorized possession or storage of firearms on campus, even by state licensed concealed weapons permit holders. This policy has been challenged in recent years. In April of 2005, a student licensed by the Commonwealth of Virginia to carry concealed weapons was discovered possessing a concealed firearm in class. While no criminal charges were filed, it is unknown what disciplinary action was taken by the school for violating Tech policy due to student confidentiality. University spokesman Larry Hincker, in response to challenges over the authority of the university to enforce such a policy, said "We think we have the right to adhere to and enforce that policy because, in the end, we think it's a common-sense policy for the protection of students, staff and faculty as well as guests and visitors."[122]

Virginia bill HB 1572, intended to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit … from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun" was introduced into the Virginia House of Representatives by delegate Todd Gilbert. The university opposed the bill, which died in subcommittee in January of 2006. Spokesman Larry Hincker responded "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."[123]
--End quote-

I wonder how safe Mr. Larry Hincker FEELS now. Virginia Tech guaranteed a safe working environment for the gunman who was able to murder 32 unarmed and defenseless victims.

No Carlton, you make a mistake. This murderer is a boy with who commited this because he was lovesick. He was in a bad mood. And he could purchase a gun.
And thats exactly why there are 30+ people dead. Because he could simply purchase a gun!

A criminal is someone who acts to get any benefit out of it. This murderer didn't act because of that. So he's not a criminal.

Yeah Bruce, reading and thinking aint easy.

I forgive you.

I have watched the news surrounding this incident, and before I say anything, I want to say that the families of the victims, including the shooter, have my condolences, and I hope you all find a way to move on with your lives. It may not mean much, but it is from my heart.

Gun ownership in the United States is protected under the US constitution. Every American has the right to bear arms, this is one of the fundemental rigths that makes this country so free. When I hear or read of people that want guns banned in the US, tighter gun control laws, so on and so on, I ask the same thing every time. "What if a gun is used to save your life one day? Then will you be so opposed to guns?" I know the answers, and I think most would say "no, I think I would be thankful that my neighbor, co-worker, random guy on the street had one at the time". Others would stand thier ground and say "well, if guns were under more control, then a gun would not be needed to save my life". Folks, guns dont kill people, people kill people. I own several handguns, even a Glock 9, two of them, does that make me a killer? No, these guns are for two purposes. Protection, which I have used one for, three times, firing once and yes, killing a man. Recreation. Yeah, recreation, I take them to the gun range, squeeze of a few rounds and then clean them, put them away. It took me more than 7 months to get a gun permit, and I have to say that I think it is absolutely insane the process an American Citizen must go through to get permission from the local Sherriffs office to excercise my right as an American. God forbid I need a gun when someone breaks into my home and I have to protect myself against a gun wielding thug with a golf club, baseball bat or super soaker, cause without a permit, I am in just as much trouble as that thug.

The point I am trying to make is this. Get off your high horse when it comes to guns, not everyone that owns one is a killer and just because you dont believe in guns, does not mean that I should have to jump through hoops to own one.

You folks from the U.K and Austrailia. As much as I respect the laws of other countries, it is not your place to be blog spot critics of other countries laws. It is not your place to talk about Columbine, nor 9/11 and American policy regarding how our citizens arm themselves.

I may sound rude, or even insensitive, but this is my country and it is my place to critique it, not yours.

Joe,
The problem is not the average guy. The problem is that insane people, like Mr. Cho, have easy access to guns. The only way to keep everybody safe is to eliminate the right to bear arms. Just because it's in the Constitution does not make it biblical. We've amended that document before, and we can do it again.

Is your right to go to the shooting range for kicks more important than the right those 32 kids had to live out their natural lives?

If guns makes (any) place safer then answer me this:
Why is it that every single western country has a lower homicide rate than the US.?

@ Jazz,

Since nobody can't buy a gun here in 15 minutes the chances that some brokenhearted person who has had a bad day kills my mom are very small. Call it zero.

Of course he commited a crime. But would he have done it when he couldn't buy a gun that easy? You have pro-criminal laws there as long as you allow people to buy guns. Its that simple.

But whatever, go ahead and continue playing with your guns. I'm happy that I'm not an US citizen.

While the Constitution is not biblical it is the foundation of what makes this country so great. The loss of life on Monday was a tragedy and my thoughts and prayers go out to their families. However you have to realize that law enforcement in this country is stetched thin as it is. Look at New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. Even the cops became criminals. At the end of the day it is your responsibility first to ensure your own safety. I for one am glad that we have the right to keep and bear arms and retain the ability to protect myself in the event that something should happen to me or my family. Part of the problem with today's society is that everyone expects someone else to take care of them and it sure seems the finger pointing is quick to follow if the outcome is not to their liking. Wake up America!

averge joe.. i find your last post very interesting. to tell the countries that mourned the loss at columbine, wept with us on 9/11, and joined a fight to defeat the "axis of evil" they have no right to an opinion about this is absurd. america has a history of imposing its beliefs on other countries (the last 4 yrs would prove this true, no?). are we not able to learn from other countries, too? or do we always have it right (the last 2 days would suggest no)? perhaps re-evaluating whether or not our founding fathers had access to gloc 9's or 22 caliber pistols when they wrote the constitution may help. i am all for having the right to protect/defend myself, but
revisions in the amendment may help me predict just what from.

I love how people think the Constitution gives them the right to bear arms. That's not what it says. It says, "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Anyone who understands how the English language works can understand that the right to bear arms is for the militia, which the people have the right to join for the security of a free state. It doesn't say anyone can own a gun.
More to the point, it shouldn't take longer to buy a car than it does to buy a gun, which apparently is the case in Virginia. Violence begets violence and guns are violence - that's the bottom line.
Gun defenders make it sound like criminals are breaking into their homes every day or they are getting robbed on the street and need a gun to "protect" themselves and others. Give me a break. I've been robbed at gunpoint, and you know what happened...I lost some money and had to cancel some credit cards. But that was it. Criminals are a fact of life. But if I had tried to pull a gun on him, he probably would have shot me. I wonder what would have happened if handguns were illegal - oh, I know, I never would have been robbed in the first place.

The Second Amendment calls for the Right to Bear Arms under the premise that those bearing arms form a "Well Regulated Militia". This Amendment was added to the Bill of Rights to prevent a tyranical centralized government from overthrowing the populice using the military. It gave individual states the right to use their own armed militias to defend themselves.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON THAT A FOREIGN CITIZEN POSSESSING A GREEN CARD SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO PURCHASE A GUN. What a joke we have become.

Wish the story had more relevant info -- like where were those other 4 murders committed? And, what about other gun stores? How many murders do the typical Virginia shops average? And again, since VA has such a "terrible reputation" as a "gunrunner" state -- in part due to the whacko NYC mayor -- where are the murders committed by Virginia purchased guns occur?

Frankly, at best a very incomplete story -- which somehow manages to make the gun store look bad without any firm accusations. I know TV in particular deals in sound/picture bites, as opposed to in-depth reporting, but it sure would be nice once in awhile to see something resembling a thoroughly researched story emerge from some national media.

First I want to say that all the families of the victims have my condolences and that God needed them and that they are in a better place. A place where the is no more crying, pain, or hurt just peace. I know everyone have their opinion about guns and here is mine. We need to bann guns because they are easy to get and if they were not available than people like Mr. Cho wouldn't have been able to take 31 angels away. I notice someone had said that if we bann guns then we need to bann cars, planes, etc... He also rank the cause of deaths. Soemthing that stands out to me on that is that they were ACCIDENTS. Most of the ones cause by gun are not ACCIDENTS. Also cancer is something no one can control but guns are controled. No guns don't kill people, people kill people but if people didn't have guns then there will be less deaths in the US. I know everyone out there with a gun is not irresponsible but majority of them are and use them for the wrong reasons. So if we just get ride of them then we won,t have a problem. Like someone have said to me before, Don't play with the problem, get rid of the problem. As long as we keep playing with the problem how many more live will it take before we get rid of the problem.

What business does New York City Police have in Virginia? None. The taxpayers of New York City are getting screwed because of their socialist mayor that wants to push his agenda on the rest of the country.

Also, it sounds like the detectives that purchased the wapons commited federal felonies by making 'straw purchases'.

The business NYC has in Virginia is that drug dealers in NYC have been taking cheap drugs purchased in NYC down to VA and selling them for a huge mark-up, b/c drugs are more expensive in VA than NYC. Then the drug dealers buy guns in VA b/c they are cheap and bring them back to NYC and sell them for a huge mark-up. Mike Bloomberg isn't a socialist (in fact, he is a Republican) and is probably the best Mayor NYC has ever had. He is not trying to "push his agenda." He is trying to get criminals off the street, keep VA kids off drugs, and keep residents of NYC safe. Get your facts straight before making broad, ill-informed comments.

"A court order from 2005 states that Virginia Tech killer Cho Seung-Hui was declared mentally ill and "an imminent danger to others," a district court clerk tells CNN... Developing..."

They knew he was an imminent threat yet choose to do nothing.

He was insane, and even worse, he was on heavy medication, which very easily could have made him even worse off.

And yet the libs still want to blame the guns.

Why is banning weapons even an issue? It is our Second Amentment right. Take away our Second Amentment Rights and what is next? This was an atrocious event, but will taking away rights included in the Bill of Rights make things better?

What's next? Well we slowly lose our rights to do anything. Pretty soon we'll be told how many children we are allowed to have. I'm bothered by the media referring to this as the largest mass murder in our country's history. Have we already forgotten 9/11? Unless I'm mistaken those innocent people were just going about their day - surely because a terrorist(s) did it doesn't make it murder. Why people choose to be naive is beyond me. Again, wake up America!

If guns makes (any) place safer then answer me this:
Why is it that every single western country has a lower homicide rate than the US.?

This article is about NYC Police committing a federal felonie by straw purchasing weapons and carrying them across state lines. So the law does not apply to the NYC government or Police Department. They are above the law and will not be prosecuted.

That is why our forefathers wroye the bill of writes and included the 2nd ammendment; to insure that despotic government can be checked.

Everyone here writing that the USA needs to be more mature like other western nations and confiscate all guns, please move to those great western nations and let your descendants reap the rewards of your superior thought processes.

Switzerland, not the USA has the highest incidence of gun ownership in the worldover 95% of households have weapons ranging from handguns to fully-automatic assault weapons. Their crime and murder rates are among the lowest in the world.
Durango, AZ in the USA passed a law that required all citizens to bear arms, and dropped any concealed weapons punishment. Their crime rate went to zero, and several career criminals left the area.
When the mentally ill can't get a gun, they may try arson in a crowded place, and chain the exits closed. Mass murder will happen whether there are guns or not. it is a human confition not an American one. When the Swiss have a murder rate double the American, I'll listen to the guns kill people rattle

Room is fairly bursting with strawmen, isn't it.

As mentioned above, he'd been involuntarily institutionalized. This was an illegal gun purchase, even in Virginia (and it seems to be astonishingly difficult to become ineligible to buy a gun in Virginia)

The gun store didn't check. Why didn't the gun store check? Because they didn't have to. Why didn't they have to? Because selling guns to shady people is a big source of revenue in Virginia (just a hair fewer than half the guns used to commit crimes in New York came from the funloving Old Dominion).

The only person who is responsible for this crime is the young man who committed it. A lot of people didn't manage to stop him.

John Markell could have, if he cared about the consequences of what he was putting on the street enough to make sure he was complying with what few gun laws he's asked to obey.

He didn't manage to do that.

The cities in the US with the the most gun control have the highest murder and crime rates. It has not and continues not to work in Australia, UK, and Canada. Wake up. The 2 groups of people who want to take guns away are Politicians and Criminals, go figure!!

Gun-control works:
+ in Australia, having 10% of the gun-killigs / citizen as the US.
+ in Canada, having about 20%
of the gunkilling of the US.
+ in the UK - where the cops are waling around without guns - because they dont need guns.!!

The 2.nd. Amendment is made to ensure a states right to have an army of its own - not to allow the NRA and the gun-lobby to rape the greatest country in the world.

Go figure !!

Yeah, ban all guns so that the only ones in the USA who have them are
1)criminals
and
2)Bush's government

That'll let me sleep easy.

Do european gun murder stats include all of the government run purges?

Hey Raid, interesting stats. I notice you focus on "gun killings" and not "killings". Gun or knife, dead is dead. How do the total murder rates compare? How about total murder rates (not just those with guns) in places like France, Switzerland where guns are more available than UK? Hell, shitloads of people own guns in Canada too. This is more complex than guns = murders ... there's something else going on the USA leading to all the violence.

Another question ... those european countries that banned guns, what did the murder rates look like before an after the bans? How about violent crime rates (which would include murder plus others) before and after.

Its tempting to think this stuff is simple but its not at all clear that the presense of guns has that much of an impact.

States that pass concealed carry laws for example usually see no change in the murder rates before to after. Not wild west shooting sprees like the gun grabbers predict, and not a drop in crime like the gun lovers predict.

Please pray for the victims' families, for our nation, and for our children. There is too much violence in this world and there always has been. We all need to listen to our hearts and stop arguing about guns. Our children are afraid. It is our responsibility as adults to teach our children the difference between right and wrong and to be good role models for them. There is too much violence in the media and in our culture. Think
about the children. They are our future.

@ Dave: No i guess not - as they also do not include the genocide of the natives in the US.

When it comes to murders per capita the US. can be proud of a place with such prominent and developed countries as Zambia and Slovakia.

Most European countries as well as Canada and Australia will be about 0,9-1,1 murder per 100.000 capita, all having a strict gun-control - the US. can enjoy a 4,2 per 100.000

France is, very fitting an 'enfant terribile' with the European countries having 1,7 murders per 100.000 capita - but then again it is easier to come by guns in France.
Switzerland is a bit of a statistic freak being so small that even a few cases makes a swing in the statistics - but they actually have a very low rate of murders even though most of the Swiss homes have firearms due to the Swizz Army policy - but then again Switzerland are one of the top-scorers in the world when it comes to suicides - and they actually did have 14 cases of family shootings with deadly outcome only last year.
And that is in spite of the fact that almost all guns are owned by trained (18 months or more) former army personnel.
However the difficulty in concealing a military weapon may contribute to keep the gun-violence within the homes - but that is an assumption on my part.

And yes, dead is very much dead, but i also think that the amount of dead counts for something - and is is VERY hard, within minutes, to kill 32 people with a knife - or you could, by the reasoning that guns do not matter, declare that all people should have ready access to M-60's.

Europe is civilized. They don't use guns.

They use gas-chambers.

It isn't called "murder" in Europe. it's called cleansing.

From Germany to Bosnia.

Go figure...

- and the people responsible for the genocides of WWII were called evil, degenerates - and accused and executed.
And the gas chambers torn down except for the ones serving as a memory of how evil things can become....

The US. still have gas chambers....

The Turkish Ottoman Empire established gun control in 1911. It then proceeded to exterminate 1 and a half million Armenians from 1914 to 1917.

The Soviet Union established gun control in 1929. Subsequently, from 1928 to 1953, 60 million dissidents were imprisoned and then exterminated.

China enacted gun control laws in 1935. After the communist takeover, from 1948 to 1952, 20 million Chinese, unable to defend themselves, were murdered.

Nazi Germany fully established gun control in 1938. That helped the government to round up 13 million defenseless Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, mentally ill and impaired human beings. Many were imprisoned in concentration camps, then destroyed.

Guatemala passed gun control laws in 1964. Then, from 1964 to 1981, 100,000 defenseless Mayan Indians were exterminated.

Uganda established gun control measures in 1970. Predictably, from 1971 to 1979, 300,000 defenseless Christians met a similar fate.

Cambodia established gun control measures in 1956. Subsequently, from 1957 to 1977, 1 million Cambodians met their deaths.

Why are you deleting my posts....

Thomas is beeing rather entertaining but not more than that - the connection between genocides and gun control is non-existing as i hope everybody can see - if not see following;

Every well-informed individual knows that the first half of the 20.century is also called the "Time of Disasters" because we industrialized genocide, and you might as well blame Henry Ford for inventing his way of working efficient as blaming responsible gun-laws.

Of course a lot of countries made gun-control laws in the first half of the century; this was the first time the easy-to-use handgun got widely available to people at a cheap price and on a large scale.
(and personally i dont count a 1860 rimfire Colt with paper cartridges, a reloading time of about a minute and a recoil like a donkeys kick an easy-to-use gun)

We have had genocide before gun-laws, eg. the American Indians were not unarmed (by the standards of the time) but never the less the newcomers did away with a couple of 100 millions
- just as the millions of guns in the US. did not prevent Pearl Harbor, 9-11 or won the Vietnam War.

In many places with western engagement (eg. Iraq and Afghanistan) everybody has a gun - will somebody explain to me why those countries are not heavenly peaceful.

The point is that you can always make an artificial truth by mixing facts.

However, a fact remains; That every western country has a lower homcide-rate than the US.