Yeah! Now is a great time to surrender in Iraq and hand a huge victory to Al Qaeda that will super-charge their fund raising and recruiting, and offer them a large sanctuary in to develop plots and train operatives! Better yet, why don't we also turn over the Middle East oilfields to control by Iran and its allies so that they can destroy the American economy?

i am glad that the bomb was stopped in time.
i really hope the authoritys apprehend the terrorists that did this and then capture all of their associates.

ONCE WE LEAVE QAEDA WILL BE THE ONES GETTING KILLED. WHY BECAUSE IRAN DOES NOT NEED THEM ANYMORE. IF YOU ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT THE AMERICAN ECONOMY WHY DID THE SENATE DENY PRES BUSH HIS OPEN BORDER PROPOSAL? IF IT NOT IRAN ITS THE MEXICANS RIGHT? LOOK UNDER YOUR BED TO NIGHT YOU NEVER CAN TO SAFE.

We denied the proposal because taxpayers didn't want to pay for millions of more poor people to come here and take government handouts. Previous immigrants had a sense of pride about refusing help from the government. This group thinks it's entitled to everything. Illegal immigrants cost the city of Los Angeles $1 billion a year, not counting how much it takes to educate their kids. 10 ERs have closed thanks to people demanding free health care. Guess we didn't want to reward that behavior. It's not good for the economy, it's good for big business who was trying to create a slave class out of the Mexicans. We did you a favor.

These ARE NOT CAR BOMBS. Someone standing right by the car might get burned,very small chance it would work at all. Very sad media reporting, do you ever question these idiot officials? Anyone with high school chemistry should know better!

I agree with Miles. Propane/gasoline without oxidant would make a pretty poor bomb.

Makes you wish America had the British security system instead of the bumbling Bush incompetents, who failed to stop 9/11 after being specifically warned of it months beforehand in the CIA briefings they ignored. I doubt the new British Prime Minister Brown is taking a three month vacation like "Brush-Clearing" Bush did in 2001.

First the Blitz Then 30 years of the IRA sponsored by NORAID (bet you're proud of that now) Now we've got 30 years of AL Queda bombings to look forward to. I dare say we'll cope.

Now is a great time to surrender in Iraq

We lost the war in Iraq in the summer of 2003 when Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld refused to send more troops to deal with the rising insurgency.

"Yeah! Now is a great time to surrender in Iraq and hand a huge victory to Al Qaeda that will super-charge their fund raising and recruiting, and offer them a large sanctuary in to develop plots and train operatives! Better yet, why don't we also turn over the Middle East oilfields to control by Iran and its allies so that they can destroy the American economy?"

This never ceases to amaze me. Al-Qaeda in Iraq is there because Duhbya created an ideal situation from them. If the action in Afghanistan had gotten more attention, and Iraq was left alone, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. Use of the word "surrender" is just idiotic.

This also shows that the statement "if we fight them over there we won't have to fight them over here" is ridiculous. They're already over here, Iraq or not.

Whether or not this was an effective device should not be the issue. That there was a device at all is the point to be remembered. Terrorism works when there is violence against the innocent at any scale of damage or how many die or how badly they are maimed.

Ask our brave servicepersons returning returning from the mideast what they have seen or heard and see the terror well in their eyes when they remember.

We are not fighting a war against a foe fighting with rules of engagement in a country's uniform. We are fighting against a distortion of truths, a perpetuation of lies.

Muslim leaders have been recorded as saying that a goal of Islam is the eradication of the infidel.
Remember this the next time you vote for a weak congressman who campaigns against defending our boarders and country.

I for one am amazed at the abilities of their bomb squad in the U.K. and especially the person that took "the long walk". what courage he/she must have as well as pride in their abilities to save the lives of innocent people. This is true heroism in action! it's good to know that the cowardly fools that made this sword of evil have been thwarted be such fine human beings! The good guy's won this one!!!!

Not only is it brave to manually defuse a bomb but to do it in a paper haz-mat suit (as is seen in the photo) really takes some nerve.
Someone should let the Brits know about body armor and containment shielding that can be placed over and around explosives so they can be deliberately detonated in a controlled environment without the need of someone attempting to defuse them...in a paper suit and particle mask.

I've seen photos of just this sort of things used in US cities.
Uh, in these days of terror, someone in England has thought of such a device haven't they???

"Civilized war is the kind we fight against them, whereas savage war is the atrocious kind that "they" fight against us!"
This manure has been spread about by each side in every war that man has manufactured and played a role in.
Enough already.

Miles nails it. This wasn't a credible threat, it was either a bunch of real bumblers or it was a propaganda theatre piece, someone sending a welcome wagon to Gordon Brown on his second day in office. If the Media would stop hyperventilating and dig into their stories a bit, do a little research, ask, maybe a physicist or explosives expert, maybe people wouldn't be terrrrrrrized in ignorance.
Because if this is the level of threat that we face, we could much better spend the DHS money on important things.

some of you people commenting kill me - instead of putting the root cause as Islamic Jihad/fanaticism, you immediately start blaming Bush and the US - how truly sad and ignorant. and I'm sooooo impressed with you explosives experts calling this incident meaningless. I guess you won't wake up until we have another 9/11 - of course that will have nothing to do with muslim extremists either . . .

The jury is still out on 9/11 for many people on this planet!
And these terrorists are either highly trained, meticulously organized and technologically sophisticated as we have been led to believe for 6 years now, or they are just a bunch of renegades from F troop who can't find their posteriors with both hands and just happen to get lucky now and again.
Well, which are we supposed to believe. What we see or what the new world order governments tell us?
Because there's a big, big disconnect between what the establishment has told us about these guys and what we see going on in the news since 9/11.
Lots of busts but no conclusive evidence to back up the theories of the authorities...especially in England.

Gameshow hostess Keith Olbermoronn had like-minded leftist kook Larry Johnson on her unwatched gameshow "Meltdown with Keith Olbermoronn" to discuss the London bomb. Johnson, who knows absolutely nothing about explosives, bombs, warfare or anything else, claimed that the bombs were "non-bombs" that would mereley do "damage to the interior of the Mercedez." He also claimed that if someone "were within 20 or 30 feet of the bomb they would have ear damage but not much more." ROTFLMAO! Avoid drinking any beverages while watching to avoid spitting on your computer as you laugh hysterically. Of course, Johnson also claimed prior to 9/11 that terrorism was no threat. Is anyone surprised that Johnson is a darling of Miss Olbermoronn and other kook fringe leftist freaks?

The fact that someone with a little know how could actually do a lot of damage is scary. That's the real story, someone that dumb could get that far, there was never any danger of a large loss of life. The reporting is pathetic. How could we possibly know what to believe anymore? Officials quoted, talking about a hundred yard radius of death and destruction narrowly avoided, is complete and total propaganda. They couldn't possibly believe that crap.

Tom - It's great that you post on these forums. Your arguments and pre-school name calling perfectly illustrate why you, and people like you, support a bumbling incompetent like Bush. Are you also one of the 68% of Republicans who believes the universe is 6,000 years old (Gallup Poll - June 2007) and that Iraq attacked us on 9/11 (Dick Cheney - June 2007)? No wonder Republicans haven't won a war since 1898...the Spanish-American War.

This comment is for miles the explosives expert. Fist thing, knucklehead, you don't need an Oxidant (whatever that's supposed to be) to detonate a propane tank. Study up on pressureized tanks of flammable gasses.
All you need is a detonator, i.e blasting cap, or expose the tank to extreme heat, i.e a burning vehicle. When the propane tank is exposed to high heat it WILL explode. If you don't believe me try putting the propane tank you use for your backyard grill in an open fire and watch what happens. Be sure to stand nice and close. You might want to label body parts so they can put you back together when it explodes and turns you into shark chum. Before you call me ignorant I must tell you I have 22 years experience as a hazardous material handler in the military so I do know what I'm talking about, unlike some people who will remain nameless. If that jeep would have made it into the terminal the fatalities would have been tremendous. In fact if it would have detonated the glass front of the terminal would have been like a huge claymore mine detonationg.

>I agree with Miles. Propane/gasoline >without oxidant would make a pretty >poor bomb.

Actually, some of the the largest bombs used in the Vietnam war...the so-called thermobaric munitions, were air fuel explosives..made with propane and using atmospheric oxygen as the oxidant.

It would be nice if your certainty were matched by your expertise.

Folks, a few things occur to me thinking about the latest incidents:

9/11 was devestating and well planned as were the attacks that happend all through the 90's including the first attack on the World Trade Center

The Attacks since then have not nearly been as well executed although if you were a victim or a family member this matters little

Many other attacks have been thwarted

I can not help but think that the fact that we have not had an attack on the scale of 9/11 has much to do with the fact that we are now playing both offense and defense.

I know many disagree with the actions of both Blair and Bush in Iraq and Afghanistan but no team wins by defense alone.

I can tell you first hand that many veteran members of Al Qaeda with experience in Somalia, Afghanistan , The Balkans and Chechnya have been killed and captured in both theaters.

We should all know with the hind site of the 30's that fascist organisations are only emboldened by anything other than strong military action.

I would encourage all you who think igniting 3o some gallons of gasoline as a booster to ignite propane tanks to find a grown up who will assemble such a thing in a remote location and ignite it while you watch at a safe distance.

Fred, excellent posting- the most intelligent contribution here, thanks. I wish more people on both sides of the pond realize that their have been events that have been thwarted offensively and defensively. Several of these have been here on our U.S. soil. Luck has nothing to do with it.

Still drinking the Kool-aid, huh, Jack?

As are others on this thread.

Try to concentrate, gotcha.

Right there in the article it says: "Donning an approximately 90-pound Kevlar suit, one technician took "the long walk" from his armored response van to the Mercedes E 300 sedan and found a carefully constructed, large vehicle bomb with a complicated fuse."

The guy in the photo is cleaning up AFTER the bomb was disabled.

Sorry Humpty Dumpty but I have a lot more faith in our military than to believe that. Propane tanks have a pressure relief valve that pops off long before the tank ruptures, it looks like a big torch, thankfully we have a few safty regulations left, It still wouldn't do anything like described in the media. Claymore is so rediculous I hope you are joking and not really that gullible.

It now appears that these guys were pretty amateurish - poor planning and little technical know-how. HOWEVER, it doesn't take an Einstein to kill a bunch of people...that's all...pretty cut & dry...

Hey humpty dumpty,
A quick word from another guy who has been in the army:
You NEED oxidizer for a bomb.
If you don't provide it, it just woin't work.
If you provide too few or not mixed, it will just burn.
Your oxidizer can be air oxygen as in the case of the air fuel bomb mentioned by another "expert" but in that case the fuel is first sprayed by a primary explosion and -remember- the MOAB is dropped from an aircraft.
If you put 5cc of plastic or semtex in an oil can you get a pretty nice fireball (though not much of a blast) but this is due to the plastic mixing the oil with the air once the can has exploded: the oil does not explode on its own.
FYI if you believe the movies, a burning car explodes in a huge fireball - Bushwa!
This is the reason why most terrorists (Mc Veigh and so on) use fertilizers: this provides the oxidizer the bomb requires.

Now I guess this post will be censored as giving too much of a hint to prospective trrorists - we would all prefer they keep on simply burning their cars.

Oh, and a gas canister might explode if you heat it up (if the security valve is blocked) but the energy released in the explosion has been provided by heating up the can - very low compared to the chemical energy form the propane.

You are an explosive expert and you don't know what an oxidizer is?
Come one! You're pulling our leg here, aren't you?

Follow up for the explosives expert

Ever heard about the flame speed issue?
Basically it is related to the ratio between the mass of the burning material and the speed at which it releases its chemical energy.
Basically, below 2000m/s you have a deflagration: a nice looking and cool (relatively) fireball; and above you have a detonation with a shockwave in addition of a very hot fireball.
For maximized damage you want a detonation, and for that you want to pre-mix the oxidizer with the fuel.

By the details of the article above, I assume that the Mercedes windows were closed since the smoke remained inside - and also that the bomb actually started to burn (no smoke without fire) and what they say about the thickness of the smoke gives us an indication of incomplete combustion, typical of a starved fire - i.e. a fire without enough oxygen.

All this sounds pretty amateurish and harmless to me, and certainly not able to generate the mayhem described by the officials.

BTW and since we are on the subject, ever noticed how the surveillance camera shots on the pentagon show a remarkable round (spheric) cloud at the onset of the eplosion (first frame)?
This is characteristic of a detonation.
Now what in a 757 could detonate?

Sleep well

"Makes you wish America had the British security system instead of the bumbling Bush incompetents, who failed to stop 9/11 after being specifically warned of it months beforehand in the CIA briefings they ignored. I doubt the new British Prime Minister Brown is taking a three month vacation like "Brush-Clearing" Bush did in 2001."

9/11 WAS PLANNED DURING THE LYING ERA OF THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. It was carried out after Clinton's inattention to radical Islam terrorist when all he did was blow up an aspirin factory. The Radical Islamic terrorist were training in Florida during the Clinton administration. If Clinton would have acted, the majority of the Radical Islamic leaders would have been neutralized. What a short memory liberals have, which proves that denial ("The Nile" for those of you who are literalist) is not only a river in Egypt.

Even when I was young and foolish and working with the Freedom of Information Center to get the FoI Act passed, I -- and all my colleagues -- realized that the idea was a free AND RESPONSIBLE press (now I guess it's "press and Net"). I don't care why the bombs didn't go off, but if we DO know, why should we tell it to every hot-to-trot jihadi trawling the Net? So they get it right next time?
Privacy was also an issue back then, and I still believe the more we have of it the better. But we also have to defend ourselves, and we need much more competent surveillance (always with judicial oversight, as long as those asking for it get it almost immediately)and human intelligence than we now have. We need anyone who can speak Arabic, Pashtu, Urdu, Farsi etc. to simply translate the backlogged surveillance we already have. But as for that invaluable humint in the field, especially abroad, we need Middle Easterners who understand and are able to penetrate the various tribal/clan/alliances circles. Most people, including Middle Easterners, can't tell by appearance alone whether you're a Saudi, a Sephardic or Mizrahi Jew, a Lebanese, a Syrian, Iranian, Iraqi etc. Next to contacts, the language and accent or dialect is the hardest to get right. Does anyone on this blog know how well we are recruiting such people, and if the number is too low what can be done?
Re Iraq, it's true the Al Quada guys and others see withdrawal as weakess and, in case anyone has forgotten Nasser's reaction to the '56 Suez crisis, most Arabs will conclude from the "surrender" that America is not a very reliable ally. Iraqi Kurds and Shiia also remember the aftermath of the first Gulf War, when Dubya's father told the Kurds and Shiia to rise up against Saddam. They did, and we stood by and let Saddam massacre them. It's easy to say when I'm not sitting in a Humvee getting bombed and shot at, of course, but maybe we should wait and see what General Petraeus has to say in September and take his advice. None of our options are good at this point.
I'm neither liberal nor conservative, sort of an independent progressive I guess, but, like our son-in-law over there, am one of those idiots who thought that if we rid Iraq of Saddam, the still-sane Moslems in the Middle East would initially be furious but gradually realize that Americans were more concerned for Moslem lives than the Al Quaeda and Iranian mullah types who are happy to send as many of their people to Paradise but not make that trip themselves just at the moment. Now, I think that the problem is that the sane, decent moderate Moslem populations are afraid to stand up to the extremists and are sitting behind shuttered windows hoping to survive. There's not much anyone can do about that, and wasting any more blood and treasure isn't the right thing to do unless we're ready to go all out. This is a problem Israelis have dealt with for a long time and they have no solution so far either.

Sepharad