Telling the truth is better than a lie. I know about a Canadian was detained and sent to Syria when he was passing through the US to get to Canada. I know the RCMP of Canada caused it to happen and paid the man 8 million buck in apologies however the US escorted the man to Syrian hands where he was tortured for a year. President Bush should stand up and say what he did without giving apologies and say no chances where taken to stop suicide bombers.

This is ridiculous, of course we're rendering and torturing some of these folks. Just because the administration claims otherwise doesn't make it true. By hiding behind this legalese, we just make ourselves look even more duplicitous and untrustworthy.

Considering the excellent information that we received from KSM (waterboarding), I think that we should continue to do it on two important conditions: First that we pull out of the UN Convention on Torture which was ratified during the Clinton administration--because we are completely in violation of it. And secondly, that anyone who honors the rules outlined in the Geneva Convention should be treated according to Geneva. Violators, well, the sky is the limit.

This idea that arm-chair psychologists are putting out there that torture never works is ludicrous. While I wouldn't dispute that it may not work for everyone, certain individuals (i.e. KSM) are certainly susceptible to its effects. If it really didn't work, then why is the CIA still using it? Again, let's be a bit more honest with ourselves here.

Provided that these militants are not American citizens and are in violation of Geneva, we should be prepared to use all of the tools at our disposal to extract information from them--especially when that information may save lives.

As far as I am concerned, they can do what ever they want to these terrorists if it means that I am not gonna blow up!

Wihtout apologies? Really? How about if that was you who was totured for a year for no reason? Or someone that you love? Would you not want an apology? I highly doubt that you would shrug it off saying that "they had to do what they had to do... can't take any chances after all." I can't imagine what that poor man must have gone through for nothing!

First of all I would not have given him one penny. Tell me Jen, if you give a person 50 dollars and they go out and buy a gun and kill someone you love, who would you blame? Because we turned over a person to his country and they chose to torture him, does not make it our fault. Stop being such a politically correct apologist. If the life of one American was saved it was worth it.

It's more than a question of what info we are able to extract... The fact that we torture, with or without success, means we have lost more than we've gained. Jen's point is also well taken. We have sold our souls and abandoned any moral authority going forward. The very idea that some people find expediency in what we've done should give us little comfort...I'm sure plenty of Nazis felt the end more than justified the means and would have enthusiastically applauded this disgusting turn of events.

When God asks me on my judgement day what I know about American torturing of God's creatures I will ask him to waterboard George Bush to get the truth.

LET THE CIA DO THEIR JOB TO PROTECT US, WHY DO WE HAVE TO APOLOGIZE THE TERRORIST NEVER DOES ?

To all of you defenders of torturing and advocates of "doing whatever's necessary": The Iranian government is holding Iranian-Americans in their prisons, under the guise of protecting their homeland from foreign terrorists (sound familiar?). And it's a safe bet that our soldiers who were abducted a few weeks back were tortured, and those who did the torturing were probably gleeful in thinking that they were doing only what the US government saw fit to do to people like themselves.

one reason is to get all you so call americans to finnely see how much this adminastration has been lieing to all of you.

it is my mission to end this total rape of america from this dictator bush..

I live in a country with a bunch of people who can't think for themselves as exemplified by some of the previous comments. You pro-torture people must not support the troops. One reason not to torture is so that our people when captured are not as likely to be tortured. After all if the U.S. is a signatory to the Geneva Convention then perhaps the U.S. should adhere to the Geneva Convention. If Gonzo thinks it's quaint, well, so be it, but be man enough to then say that we, the U.S., then does in fact torture and back it up with solid reasoning. Let's not play games and parse words. Some of you people are pathetic, but then that is self obvious in that W did get alot of votes. Most of you are a bunch of cowards.

It hasn't been "arm-chair" psychologists that claim that torture doesn't work. On the contrary, the best minds in the FBI claim this as well. The CIA has kept its programs in place over the years in spite of the evidence to suggest that it doesn't work - a throwback to the Cold War between the U.S. and the Soviet Union. Those of you that think that torture is the way to go should read a little about the subject, then revisit our role in the Geneva Convention (why we signed it to begin with). Finally, take a walk through the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights and ask yourselves "which one of these rights should I give up FOREVER?" Think about that.

Bob,

Firstly you're completely ignoring the fact that we tortured Khalid Sheik Muhammad (waterboarding) and got a number of priceless intelligence leads. So you're wrong, torture does work with certain individuals.

Moreover, can you explain to me why the U.S. has rendered terrorism suspects to countries like Saudi Arabia to extract information from them? If we really did believe that torture didn't work, I can't imagine why we'd be sending these suspects to countries that everyone knows engage in wholesale torture of their prisoners.

With respect to your comment about the Geneva Convention, I have read it...and can you tell me where al Qaeda's signature as a party to the treaty is please? Also, is it just me or did al Qaeda not read the sections about targeting civilians, or not wearing uniforms? I don't know about you bob, but if someone was ignoring a contract that I signed with them, I don't know if I'd still be following through with it.

Finally the U.S. Constitution: I've thought a lot about many of the rights that AMERICAN CITIZENS have lost since the founding of this nation (not just the last 7 disastrous years). Since you're making the argument that these terrorists enjoy certain rights under the U.S. Constitution then I should ask you bob, what rights don't they enjoy? How about the 2nd Amendment? Does the U.S. government not have the right to disarm them? How about the 4th Amendment? Does the U.S. not have the right to search and seize them without a judicial warrant? Or perhaps the 14th Amendment? Are we treating a class of individuals (terrorists) differently than we do everyone else?

bob, a bit of legal history...the U.S. Constitution is a legal document that applies to American Citizens and American Citizens only. To attempt to apply it to everyone who is not an American Citizen would not be a ridiculous enterprise despite Justice Kennedy's best efforts, it would completely undermine our country. Finally, you can't just pick and choose which parts of the Constitution apply to an individual and which parts don't...that's tyranny bob...and also a complete violation of the Constitution.

CW says "...and those who did the torturing were probably gleeful in thinking that they were doing only what the US government saw fit to do to people like themselves."

I'd be willing to bet that the US did NOT start all this so saying that the muslims are doing it in return is bogus. They started it.
I would also suggest that whatever we are doing does NOT involve, beheadings, cutting off genitals and stuffing them into mouths, hangings, dragging through the streets.

Berlanger - what is your first language since it certainly isn't English. Are you one of those Internet Jihadis?

And, sorry, Dan - I think you are an idiot. When the jihadis honor the Geneva convention and follow "normal" ROE's, then you can pontificate. This is not a "normal" enemy, this is not a "normal" war.

torture is wrong, period...whether you get information from it or not, or save lives, if you engage in it, you are perpetrating acts of evil that make you evil...so, advocate for its use if you think it makes you or your loved ones "safer" (it doesn't), but such a stance is tantamount to supporting evil...

Piling on here. NONE of you clowns that bleat on about "toture" can offer up what toture really is (some of you knotheads' logic and lack of reasoning can consitute "torture"...how's that for evil). And don't fall into the rut and mantra that toture is fully defined by the UN and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. MOST of the UN member states perform acts that makes "enhanced interrogation" look like college fraternity hazings pranks in comparison. (lets see, listening to Iron Maiden 24/7 is comparable to beating the soles of an individuals feet with a weighted length of rubber hose? Not sure I get that one...?) India, Nigeria, Venezuela, etc. as matter of standard procedure incarcerate in manner that you Anti-American clowns consider torture. YET, as this goes on EVERYDAY, you say NOTHING! The UN silence towards its regarded member states, that have made significant brutality common practice, is deafening.

However, it is important to note, and it is the black-hearted truth: the forms of torture and coercion make waterboarding pale in comparison work. One only need veiw the film footage of Saddam Hussein purge the Baath party in 1979. Oh we have the woodchipper on tap today, would prefer head first? We can garauntee head first if you cooperate...
Maybe the UN really doesn't believe that torture is all that bad....?

SO just how would you go about fixing the situation? Turning your head when something really bad happens? Negotiate in a manner befitting a "civil society?"

Why do we allow people like you to breed?

For those who say torture is ok--what if the person is innocent?

It is utterly astonishing to me that we are even having this discussion. If we torture others (yes, even terrorists) when we think it to our advantage, then on what grounds will we ask other nations to respect human rights?

The issue is much larger than the CIA and Al Qaida. What is at stake is our moral credibility in the eyes of the world.

What will we tell the world now? "Ahh, yes, we support democracy and freedom and human rights around the world! Oh, don't worry that we tortured people without giving them any right to a trial. The CIA said they were terrorists and that's good enough for us!"

As a previous poster said, what if the torture victim happens to be innocent?Or do you people think that the CIA is so perfect that they never get the wrong man?

Hawk and the rest of the neo-con Proteges need the gratification knowing they are superior to the rest of us whom consider diplomacy first as means to arbitrate differences, lets examine some of the CIAs glorious achievements for clarification, Iran,now who do you supposed help finance the overthrow the legitimate govt of IRAN then installing a despot that was known as the SHAH of IRAN, OK perhaps Mickey Mouse was having a bad day with his rat house hole, let us consider the introduction of crack cocaine into LA, now who do you suppose was selling drugs to finance a war in Nicaragua oh thats right Ollie got a pardon for that didn't he? gee and we thought ole space ball ronnie was on the up and uuppppppp, he was!

Now I know some of you are wondering where this all headed, and what the hell has this got to do with the subject matter<(NOTHING) as your fratricidal impulses have shown at what length you'll go to destroy the whole fabric of our constitution which means nothing to you, your the traitors here nothing more and nothing less, you gloss over your ignorance with rants of lefty liberals while you yourselfs and your ilk lie about your acheivements and or lack there of, name the individulas in high places in this administration who has ANY combat experience other than a perpetual AWOL pres there is none.

But the record indicates they sure know how to kill people for their oil, and other resources, just ask around the world from those who have suffered at the hands of CIA coup d'états, NO the only traitors here are the ones who wish to render the constitution into a USELESS rag for personal power and riches, called the CORPORATE ELITEISTS, and their sock puppets.