Don't you get it yet? The war effort is secondary to the cash collection process run by cheney and his BLACK OPS HORDE. Sorry military but the contractors do lead you in civilian killings, but this is not a ball game is it? Score of Gen. Betrayus 0 Number of his failed tasks in Iraq 3...back to you DOUG

This war has shown one thing very clearly.....we do not have an adequate military force under the volunteer system, for dealing with wars.

The reason they hire these mercenary firms, is they don't have adequate military personnel to handle those tasks.

We should recognize this problem, and re-evaluate the volunteer system. The draft system was far more fair, in terms of all citizens serving the country, and not just those who can't find another job.

This Blackwater group of mercernaries composed of ex-servicemen who kill with impunity, is nothing but a means for Bush to reward his cronies. The War is about Oil and raping of America's treasury by Bush's cronies.

Apparently you don't get it yet either. These contractors are hired because they can do the job cheaper than the military can. People across the nation are clamoring for reduced spending on the war and troop withdrawls. If the US were to remove civilian contractors, the military would have to take over these duties. That would make the cost of the war GO UP and the number of troops deployed in the region WOULD ALSO GO UP. You can't have it both ways.

Finally ... the correct term is being used. Companies like Blackwater are MERCENARY SOLDIERS. It's a euphemism to always call them "private security firms."

In my opinion use of "private" security is a necessary evil in the big scheme of things.

Why should we have Soldiers running around a battlefield escorting "US Officials?" As it is our ground forces in Iraq is stretched thin....we do have a surge operations going on right now. Besides our Soldiers primary role is to wage war(every Soldier an Infantryman first) and not to perform the role of a security detail.

If the State Department chooses to hire private security....there are ROE (Rules of Engagement) or procedures on use of force in place to minimize collateral damage to civilians or engaging enemy combatants.

Lets not jump into conclusions until a full report has been investigated by the State Department. Anytime that there is an incident, it has to be reported and investigated, let the folks on the ground do their work and report what went wrong (if any) and recommendations to avoid future occurances.

These contractors know how to handle the nuts in Iraq. Unfortunately, all the know-it-alls, who have never set foot there, will put these guys down.
They risk their lives everday for the various pompous politicians who nosey around.

"The reason they hire these mercenary firms" ...is to stuff the pockets of Halliburton, Blackwater and other such corporate entities under the protection of Dick "Warbucks" Cheney. That is all. This administration does not want a draft, because that would create accounability as it did in Vietnam. This administration will institute a draft system only when it has promoted itself to a dictatorship accountable to nobody.

How can war profiteers hurt the war effort? I thought that rewarding war profiteers were the whole reason for the war effort.

There is no such thing as a "necessary evil". Evil is never "necessary" - but only convenient to other evil purposes.

Blackwater claims they are an extension of the military. They go around with the military and they shoot and kill people (many innocent) which has nothing to do with Security! Congress can't get any information on or from them, and you would think everyone in the government works for George Bush and has no accountability! That goes with all the money we have spent as well.

We know Iraq is a failed policy anmd war that has killed thousands for NO reason except oil! We know that "protect our assets" that Clinton and Obama were talking about, and additionally is the line fromthe Iraqi Task Force recommentdation is nothing more than protecting Exxons assets! NOW WE HAVE a Prsident of the United States with his own private army! That is not acceptable, and it is time George left as he has never, ever told anyone the truth and he wants to start a war with Iran! Get him OUT of office, or stop his authority that the Congress alloweb him to USURP! This is a total nightmare!

Boy I am glad the military is getting outsourced because if the blackwater losers can do the job cheaper than the grunt, think of the money we be saving...

Anyone who has satellite, watch "Iraq for Sale'. It will open your eyes.

And how come people keep saying that contractors cost less then soldiers.

News flash, contractors usually rake in 10 times what a soldier makes.

What has hurt the war effort is the undermining of it from the start by the Democrats and the News Media. More liberal hypocrisy.

Dont EVEN push the failing war off on the contractors, although they too had a part in it. The failing war is due to a failing REASON to go to war! You can only make people MURDER OTHERS for so long without a just cause... then eventually they will reject the cause.

bushies et al MUST be IMPEACHED!!!
the armed forces are becoming a NON-force! Bring BACK the DRAFT!!!

did we have "guns for hire" during Vietnam? Korea? WWII???

Yet another sad dimension to an already disastrous American foreign policy. Start packing your bags GOP self righteous, self serving, self enriching, corporate lap dog sell outs. Inauguration Day is Independence Day!

"News flash, contractors usually rake in 10 times what a soldier makes."

Unfortunately, the economics isn't that simple. In order to wage a military operation, you must train the soldiers, pay them, house them, feed them, arm them, and transport them. Then you have to purchase, maintain, and fuel the vehicles to transport them. Then you have to do all of that again for the multitude of staff necessary to support an active military combat unit.

When you look at the total cost of such extensive operations, you will see that even though a single contractor makes more than a single soldier, the total cost of the contract is far less than what it would cost the military to perform these duties themselves.

Military personnel are not trained to be armed escorts for diplomats (nor should they be), they are trained to wage war. When foreign dignitaries visit the US, do you see them being escorted around by the military? No. You see them being handled by the Secret Service and local Police. Why is that? Because they are properly trained and equipped to perform that task.

The concept here is called outsourcing. Ask any economist, and they will all tell you the same thing: People outsource work for three main reasons: cost, resources, and expertise. This is true for goverment agencies, mega corperations, and self-owned businesses. Furthermore, companies have to compete against each other to win those contracts, and that drives the cost down even further.

Don't forget that PR Petraeus testified that the mercenaries were an essential part of our "strategy" in Iraq.

SEN. MCCAIN: And yet, your numbers by any estimate or formula that you
use, that you're receiving, are either inadequate or bare minimum. Does
that concern you?

GEN. PETRAEUS: It does, sir. ... However, there are tens of thousands of contract security forces and ministerial security forces that do, in fact, guard facilities and secure institutions, and so forth, that our forces --coalition or Iraqi forces -- would otherwise have to guard and secure.
And so that does give me the reason to believe that we can accomplish the mission in Baghdad with the additional forces.

What has hurt the war effort is the undermining of it from the start by the Democrats and the News Media. More liberal hypocrisy.

Posted by: John K. | Sep 27, 2007 5:56:19 PM

=======================================

What has undermined the war effort is the monumental incomptence our the people behind the war. Here's just one example:

We have no idea what kind of ethnic strife might appear in the future, although as I have noted, it has not been the history of Iraq's past.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, FEBRUARY 27, 2003*

*At that time, Wolfowitz was the Deputy Secretary of Defense

I don't believe Blackwater was hired by Iraq - it was hired by our State Department and given immunity form US military and Iraq law consequences in all their actions. A mercenary group, hired guns are loyal to their paycheck NOT to any country or ideology other than making money.

Hey, who hired the egghead? It's obvious the money is being squandered without accountability. Anyone who says otherwise is blissfully ignorant, naive, or on the payroll.

As long as our military is hampered by stupid rules of engagement imposed by those who know nothing about rules of engagement firms such as Blackwater will be needed as their rules are different and more effective overall.

"Furthermore, companies have to compete against each other to win those contracts, and that drives the cost down even further."

Check your source there bub, Blackwater gets a LOT of NO-BID contracts. That means NO COMPETITION. Which means taxpayers get stuck with a higher bill. Wake up. Outsourcing government functions to for profit companies WITHOUT COMPETITION means the taxpayers get screwed to make some politician's poster boy rich. And you can't tell me that a "Contractor" who costs $350 a day in salaty is cheaper than a $53 a day E-3. Bull.

All the brave people speak, some with experience, some with folly. Being in a war zone fighting an enemy who hides behind women and children while it fires weapons at our military is cowardice. When fighting whether you be private or military is difficult and civilians are going to be the collateral damage.
As the old saying goes: Killem all and let God do the sortin.

contractors work for their own pockets ,they don`t want it to go well in iraq, the`re making lots of $$$$$$ and still want the chaos to continue to make more $$$$$

So, it took all you all to get all the way down here at the bottom of the blog for me to determine that all you bloggers missed the most important message to the distraction of BlackWater...Still.

There is no valid reason for us to be in Iraq in the 1st place, Dudes. There is no justification for us to be in Iraq, None! Talking about it, quantifying the validity of supporting a network of terrorist transport through the Middle East, paid for by us, powered by Haliburton...By letting this distract us from what is really going on does nothing to solve our problems.
Blogging is great, but it is also the nation's best distraction tactic. Keeps people sedintary, fat, lazy, arm chair politicians, who cry at the sight of starving Polar Bears, beat their kids, many of whom don't vote in the 1st place, and have a ...What grade was that again? education...6th?

Americans are so stupid, so fat (read the studies). stupid Americans who insist on sacraficing another's child so he/she can live 'the american dream', eat like a slob, waste everything in sight, demand more, and be the 1st to kill his neighbor for a donut when the lights go out and we have no law. Great job America.
So what is it exactly we are trying to protect or save anyway??

To: MDM_2007

Dam, your good, I am glad their are other Americans still alive. I was getting worried that I may have been one of the last one's alive. Thanks dude. Yes we must only fight for America not for any other stupid reason. and Iraq war; was not, for America. it was for some upper class society. When the war started I told people, We would soon learn it was a mistake and Now I am proven right. I get the last laugh at that.

Some comments: Just read how there were 100,000 new jobs recently. That's because there are 100,000 soldiers over in Iraq who have left their old jobs.

But, Let's make the liberals happy. Bring all the troops back home right away. Then all the supporting jobs that support the military can shut down and our economy can take a nose dive.

But that's okay because we can just tax those who are still working, right? You know the rich? Like me, on Social Security.

Only thing, I am a Veteran. I am Conservative Republican. Sorry for the rambling comments.

But, bring the troops back home and we won't need the draft. But we might need Blackwater here in the States.

I think we should just say to hell with the oil. We don't need it right? We will come up with something?

We can all start riding a bicycle. Will you kids really sacrifice? I doubt it.

Let it all go to hell. Let's fight here. I think it would be fun coming up with IED's here. Radio Shack could provide a bunch of things to set them off. Let's go!!! Bring them all back!!!

Or maybe we can just not pay attention to the TV filtered BS read some of the milblogs and know that we are doing one heck of a job over there? Realize that when we started that we were told it was going to take a long time. But in a microwave generation, that is over 10 minutes. I don't have the answers, but I know what is not the answer.

The President, the DOD, et al say that the Mercenaries are necessary because we don't have enough soldiers. So they pay these ex-soldiers ten times what a soldier earns.

I guarantee you, if they offered that money to real soldiers, they wouldn't have any shortage of volunteers for these missions, which SHOULD be handled by real soldiers who are operating under the laws of war.

The real point to the Mercenaries is two-fold. First, they are NOT subject to Iraqi laws, thanks to Bush and Paul Bremer. Second, Bush campaign contributors are getting rich off of (I think we can assume) no-bid contracts with cost-plus compensation clauses. It's the way the Bushites do business.

And you can't tell me that a "Contractor" who costs $350 a day in salaty is cheaper than a $53 a day E-3. Bull.

Posted by: ampdoc | Sep 28, 2007 10:04:40 AM
Yes, actually, you can be told that daily, and I doubt you could comprehend the fact of the matter. Go to BW's site, and see what kind of qualifications are REQUIRED to work as a security contractor on the DOS contract. Secret Clearance. Minimum of 3 years Military experience. Special Operations identifier, such as SEAL, Ranger, Army SF, Marine Recon, AF Parajumper, etc. Do you think those guys grow on trees? It takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to train one of those "$53 a day" E-3s you refer to. And the cost of training one of the SF-type guys referred to above? Astronomical!!

Check your facts, bud. The use of contractors in this nature has been around longer than you are aware of. President Clinton (Democrat) used them extensively as well. Political party has nothing to do with contractors being in a war zone.

Why don't you research the companies who are out in Iraq providing personnel? KBR provides support services on bases that save the government billions of dollars, and does not require keeping troops to fulfill those duties, hence allowing more to be in the streets, hence requiring less to be here.

Oh, and here's my favorite part of your post:
"...By letting this distract us from what is really going on does nothing to solve our problems..."

You seem to be a Subject Matter Expert.... why don't you run for Office?
Oh, wait, that would require you to really do some research and have a clue.

And to the individual who was so impressed with that tripe: I am simultaneously laughing and shaking my head in disgust at your eagerness to agree with someone who has more thinking power than yourself. Hmmm, I agree with you on one thing though. We should fight for America. Are you ready, buddy? Let's go to the military recruiter's office and sign up! I will even re-enlist and go right beside you. I will even keep you safe as I can, just long enough for you to learn you are clueless. Then, you are on your own. Maybe that's one thing your parental units should have done with you a lot earlier than they did: released you to live and think on your own.

What's wrong, editor? Afraid to post my EARNED opinion? I have noticed that several posts I have left already have not been added to this blog. Are you censoring my opinion? Have I used profanity? NO. Have I threatened anyone? No. Have I expressed my opinions? Yes. Are they pertinent to this topic? Yes.
So, why then, ABC editor, are you not allowing my posts to be added to this misinformed thread? Once again, mainstream media deciding what America needs to see/hear/read.
And to think my brothers and I fought for this right....

The merceneries are more expensive, better equipted, and are comprised of soldiers from other countries...South America...It is to line the pockets of Republican contributors. Prince huge contributor to repugnant party.
There is no justification for huge "security force" such as Blackwater for protection of civilians such as congress members etc. Being in Iraq has not contributed to congressional matters or their intelligence, and travel should be forbidden. Troops need to get out, as not only has the democracy of Iraq been a farce, being there is stage for further expansion of "democracy" into Iran. Current war funding request contains $88 billion to modify stealth for MOP. massive ordinance penetrators for hauling super bunker busting bombs. IAEA says Iran will not have nuclear weapons for years and if we preemptive attack Iran, Russia and China will side with Iran. China will kill our dollar and we won't have the $ to fund additional war efforts.

Impeach: If you had any idea how much training and experience those "mercenaries" have, you would realize that they don't grow on trees and cost millions to train, plus years to get that experience. They are actually WAY cheaper, despite what you see them getting paid. Would you come over to Iraq and put your life on the line for less than $100k? I doubt it. And if you read up on the requirements to be with BW on this contract, you will see that they are our fellow Americans.
I am not a BW proponent. But I understand what happens here. Yes, they are vital to the protection of our vital diplomatic mission. It is not the military's role to escort diplomats. That duty falls under the DSS(look it up), which is badly undermanned. And if you had any idea about Arab culture, you can't conduct diplomatic affairs here with a phone call. Research, buddy!

Further, most of the posts here do not bear in mind that we are fighting the Global War on Terror. This has been ongoing worldwide for longer than you can fathom. Do you think the government is just going to openly announce it's plans to combat terrorism? The operators who conduct those special missions would be compromised, and such operations would be made impossible. In this impatient generation, a person would be foolish to believe that this fight will be over in a year. We are fighting an idea, not a people. It will take time. And if we don't continue to fight it, it will infect the world rampantly, and you won't know your life to be the same. You should be thankful there are troops and diplomats and contractors in Iraq doing something you lack the fortitude to do: fight in unconventional warfare and diplomacy to combat terror worldwide. Quit being so paranoid and unite behind your Flag for once! It might actually help speed things along.

contractors work for their own pockets ,they don`t want it to go well in iraq, the`re making lots of $$$$$$ and still want the chaos to continue to make more $$$$$

That's right, Joey. Let it all continue to go to hell! Pay my bloodthirst for another 3 decades so I can retire richer than your whole family!
But I would still have done more for this country than you, and contributed more to the Global War on Terror!

Don't be so foolish! If the fight was over here, and there was no more danger, no more need to train Iraqis, no more need for the Coalition to be in Iraq at all, contractors would find somewhere else to conduct those missions. Despite what you believe, American contractors work for the highest bidder, and they happen to be our own government. That's right, Joey. Our government knows that the best way to retain these specialists and to massively improve our economy nationwide is to pay them more money than you. Too bad. And if you think everyone over here is doing it for a ton of reasons besides the money, you are wrong. We have mouths to feed and houses to pay for. However, we are still staunch American patriots! How so?!? What does the international community say about America? Do you think they would be inviting one of our professionals with open arms to "infect" their country? And do you think that our RETIRED Special Forces are flocking to be employed by other governments that openly oppose America, in at least our policies? Don't be so misguided to think that for a fraction of a second!
By the way, do you know any contractors?
Not the gun toting types, I refer to the construction worker, the admin specialist, the law enforcement officer, etc. Are they un-American because of their employer? No, they are patriots who happen to make a lot of money doing something they already were in America. And guess what: in short time, they will return to America to continue the mission there once they are satisfied!

"...The draft system was far more fair, in terms of all citizens serving the country, and not just those who CAN'T FIND ANOTHER JOB." Rick McDaniel

How dare you, sir? I dreamed of becoming a Marine like the rest of the MEN in my family, since I was a child. And even some of the female members of my family are or were service members. How do you presume to know the motivations behind current service members?

And here's another one for you: I have since found another job after SUCCESSFUL and HONORABLE service to my country. I am now a private contractor. Since I could not continue to provide the standard of living I desired for my family, I made the decision to get out and pursue more lucrative opportunities. Do I work for one of the security companies you all hate so much? No. Do I carry weapons in Iraq, (legally) and abide by the same regulations that the above "mercs" do? You better believe it. There is no such thing as a mercenary in our country's employ. Those "mercs" are protection specialists providing security for the diplomatic officials and materiel supply convoys necessary to the reconstruction efforts in Iraq. And they are former military professionals like myself, or better. And they are more patriotic than many of the posters in this board.
For you to attack the character and occupational abilities of our VOLUNTEER service members in a time of war is more Anti-American than the Al-Queda that makes you feel like looking over your shoulder every day. Again, how dare you? I know of several countries who would be happy to accept you as one of their denizens, and sympathize with your views. Please, go find one and get out of my country!

You guys have to remember that the U.S. Military condones the actions of these companies because these men are killers of calliber the U.S. military doesn't train these men know how deal with a threat with preccision and cunning. They are soldiers without remores. All they care about is money.

guess what-the blackwater sign in your picture has been photoshopped in-you can find the same pic without the sign, which would incidentally block the doors from opening on that side-a good way to burn to death if you get hit. whatever your feelings on the issue, pay very close attention, because people on both sides are trying (and obviously succeeding) to manipulate you. wake up and learn about a subject before you whine about it.