They should call them what they are - mercenaries. Soldiers who have no discipline or code that we unleashed in Iraq. Keep up with this story... there's a lot more to this than meets the eye.

Wow.... He's resigning first?

Don't memebers of this administration at least wait around until they get the "Medal of Freedom" and then they resign to be with their family?

Call em what they are - mercenaries; soldiers without the discipline and code of our military. And because we don't have enough troops to do the job, we hire this "army for pay" and unleash them on the civilians in Iraq. No wonder they hate us.

Another sacrificial lamb. Go in peace.

money money money... who has the money???

Wouldn't surprise me if he resurfaces as a director of said security company

You would resign to if you had his job.

After allowing all this happen and then having to cover yourself from all those kick-backs, you would retire too.

He has the money...
(Pink Floyd)

Griffin is yet one more war monger to bite the dust. When's the Chief War Criminal, Cheney gonna resign?

Smith's glad to go. Most of w's goons are looking for any way out of this deultory administration and their $2.4 trillion war mongering.

Mercenaries? Soldiers without the discipline and code of our military? Oh come on.... at least have some sense of what you are talking about before jumping on the band wagon. Most contractors carrying weapons in Iraq are former/retired US or Western military, and are subjected to more stringent rules for the use of force than the military. I despise how so many uninformed people suddenly act like they are experts when they are too lazy to get out of their living rooms and even bother to serve their military, let alone go to a war zone in any capacity! Of all the people who have posted such comments, how many have ever left the US, let alone gone to Iraq? You better pack a change of shorts... it's not a place for the weak and lazy!

What...you think these guys operate in a Sunday School environment? Bad guys don't wear uniforms. They fire from positions that are in and among innocent people. Those who criticise...you think you are so righteous? Have you ever walked in harms way? If not, you are spewing crap that you have no clue about. Been there. Done that. These guys protect our diplomats. In another year or so, they'll be protecting Democrats. You think the Demo's will have a bunch of sissy-boys protecting them? When it comes to the REAL world, they'll employ tough men who are man enough to make tough decisions...like killing bad guys who hide behind children. And yes, innocent people will die sometimes.

What a shame! Your heart really has to go out to this guy. I wonder what his futute plans are: A nice cushy job with Blackwater? A stint as a Cheney advisor? Or maybe just a long leisurely trip to his offshore bank account.

Who really cares what happens to this
guy??? The real question is when are they
going to get the real crooks Bush and
Cheney and put them up for WAR CRIMES.

My comment is addressed to DaveM, John and Mike.

First DaveM

You believe they have no honor, but just because black water did what they did does not mean other security details are of the same ilk.

Yet I really do like the other piece of your statement. Looking deeper into the situation, I always believe in studying a situation. I think whatever comes out of this will be for the better. Things get broken and then must be refined. Yet I would also like to see the compared costs of running these military contracts and our own military and see why we hire out our services. Some have acted like their own experts and stated their is not enough soldiers in Iraq. Well lets look into that as well. If not during war time maybe after it when we can set our own pace and not at the cost of our troops.

John.

It appears that you are more angry at people having an opinion that differs from yours then you are with the facts that have been brought forth through investigation by our country as well as theirs. Most of your argument seems to lack merit and attacks peoples functions instead of the misconduct of people that are meant to protect.

I am not a surgeon, yet I believe a surgeon should be held accountable for his actions... but since I am not one, I have no right to state an evident opinion about their behavior when they accidentally lopped off the wrong leg? This seems to be your argument.

That seems dis genuine.

Mike

You have a fair argument at first. The enemy does hide among civilians in order to create more turmoil and frustrations. Yet from an extensive report, it does not appear that Black Water was within its right to kill targets. An overwhelming amount of witnesses said no one fired at them, there was no activity to suggest that they were under fire.

Then you relate it to political party? What does have to do with the situation? I mean are you that blinded by political issues and your own that you bring that into the argument that was never related to blue or red. Just because people oppose something does not mean they are liberals or conservatives. Bringing in personal scathing attacks does not seem like an intelligent debate. unless that was your intent...

Spare me the macho B.S.!! We are spending billions in Iraq for this made up war. These guys are bilking us and behaving like idiots.

How many of you armchair quarterbacks have ever protected our diplomats. You notice none of our diplomats have been killed or injured while being protected by Blackwater.

The biggest problem with this whole issue is the idea that civilian casualties are ever acceptable. If a terrorist hides behind a child its not ok to shoot the kid and blame it on the terrorist. Being in a life-threatening situation does not justify killing civilians and blaming it on the terrorists. Bombing civilian homes is not ok just because a bad guy shoots from inside it. Instead of "carefully" shooting at "possible" terrorists in the area and hoping not to kill civilians, we should change our approach to fighting them. Killing civilians should NEVER be acceptable, it is immoral and criminal.

All those in favor of sending the pro war bigots to Iraq, say yeah! They are just cowards. If they had a ounce of courage they would be in Iraq, but they are afraid.

In a year he'll be pitching his tell-all book on all the talk shows. We may get a little peek into what went on, if only by seeing what the government forces him to omit from its pages.

What a bunch of bs. You will NEVER have a code or honor to live by as you sit in your shopping mall world and visit war zones via CNN. Don't worry that while you and even soldiers sleep well at night, us "mercenaries" are out protecting the lives of people in Iraq that the military WILL PROTECT. So who is to do it?

This goes out to you JR.

By your grammar, I can assume you are an educated man. Good. This might make the coming point a bit easier for me to explain.

The "mercenaries" referred to in this topic are some of the US's most highly trained and operationally experienced men who have either retired or been honorably discharged from service. All bear current Secret clearances (not possible to obtain if you are an alleged "criminal of war", and are trusted in the closest confidence of diplomats of many countries, to include the US's own. There is a very limited job market for men like this, and what would you have such a man do after HONORABLY serving his country, become the country's highest trained Wal-Mart greeter? These "mercenaries" CONTINUE to serve our country, and under circumstances that you could not fathom. My ire, since you point to it, is that there are so many self-proclaimed experts who voice an uninformed opinion. From you comment, I can conclude that you have never served in the combat arms of the military, nor have you ever been to a war zone. Your opinions, like the majority of those found posted in this blog are completely uninformed of the actual situation on the ground. Yes, I can say that, as I am on the ground.
For some here to try to analyze tactics and say what a man here should or should not do is ludicrous! I know that infinitely more qualified people in the military and EXECUTIVE branch of our government are the ones who decide (still!) what the Rules for the Use of Force are for contractors. And might I add to this point by saying that they also are on the ground?
In conclusion, I will put out an analogy. Maybe then you will begin to understand my frustration at so many damning opinions from people who have no intent to put their lives on the line for someone else.

If a police officer feels his life is in any danger, or there is a threat to others, he may utilize lethal force up to the point necessary to counter the PERCEIVED threat. After the smoke clears, there may not have been a legitimate threat. As much as you might not like it, that officer will be put through a rigorous investigation, and he will be cleared, provided his JUDGEMENT call was in line with department policies. A person may die, but that person died presenting what was estimated as a possible threat to someone's life. It is the officer's duty to prevent that from happening. Hence the motto "to serve and protect".

Current security contractors are not cowboys out there gunning down anything that moves, despite what mainstream media might have you believe. These are the same reporters who do not leave their hotels or US FOBs for fear of their own lives. They (generally) take info from any source, confirmed or not, and try to make a story that the uninformed masses (including some Congressmen) will find entertaining.
Those same "mercenary killers" follow more stringent policies than a typical police department, often times putting their lives in unnecessary jeopardy to prevent a conflict. Ever heard of a water bottle being tossed at a windshield instead of firing a shot into the hood or windshield? Security contractors do that, unless there is no time. It is not a tactic that has been required by the current rules. Is that mercenary to you? Heartless? It saves lives more time than not.

But if there is a vehicle approaching a security convoy, regardless of what the client or cargo is, and it fails to follow warnings from the operators, those men are fully authorized to use the amount of force necessary to eliminate that threat, just as a policeman would. A car approaching that convoy's side is a perceived threat, regardless of whether its brakes have failed or it has a ton of explosives packed into it. How would you know? Detection by detonation is not the policy of our military, nor our contractors.
So, if you really want to say something about what is going on in Iraq, get up and come over here. Then you will have the potential for an intelligent conversation. Until you summon the fortitude to do so, read the headlines and ask questions instead of being a follower when you don't have the slightest idea of what happens here.

I welcome any INFORMED debates, but if you have not been here before in some capacity, I will regard your comments as coming from a person with no individual character or opinions based off their own legitimate evaluations.

Now I am off the soap box.
Fire Away!

Jimmy,

Have you ever been at the tip of the spear and had to make a decision whether someone else lives or dies? Of course not.

If so, you would know that nobody makes that decision lightly. No matter how "hard" you are, you will never forget what happened whether it was a "clean" kill or not. Why do you think that it is currently "acceptable" to kill civilians? What do you think the majority of these people attacking convoys are? Do you know that it is a tradition for an Iraqi father to pass his AK-47 down to his son? There are more AKs in Iraq than original thoughts in your lifetime.

"Being in a life-threatening situation does not justify killing civilians and blaming it on the terrorists"

How do you know whether a man out here carrying an AK is a terrorist? He could be, or he could just be going to work. Let me tell you this fact: Iraqis know there are security convoys. They know our rules of force (thank you armchair QBs), and they know that if they present a threat to those convoys, they will die. Plain and simple. Here's another one for you, Jimmy. The average Iraqi could care less if he dies. Life and limb mean NOTHING in this country. Maybe you should study Islam and the Iraqi culture before you pose a false intelligence. I will tell you this as a father of 2 and an American citizen: if my life is in danger because a car is still approaching my vehicle in Iraq, I am going to smoke him. I refuse to allow myself to be incinerated by a man who can not even read or write and believes everything told to him by Al-Jazeera. Besides, it is the mission of "mercenaries" to protect the vehicles and their cargo, human or materiel. And those are the Rules, buddy! I would be cleared for shooting at a vehicle that rapidly approached my vehicle and refused to stop. Bottom Line. It is impossible for you to fathom because you have never been shot at.
I would be happy to explain further, for those of you who believe everything you see in the news, and trust the words of an average Iraqi person who will sell his soul for $.25. Would you take the testimony the same if it originated from a drunk or a druggie on the sidewalk?
I would hope you to be smarter than that.

You would rather sit around in the comfort of your little air-conditioned space and complain about the results of something you lack the fortitude to participate in. I have served with fresh new troops .

What you don't see in the news are the good things happening here. The news would not run a story like that, because that is not interesting to people of your mindset. You have forgotten the whole concept of the US being in Iraq.

Well, if you had some patience, things will change here. If America pulls out of Iraq right now, a revolution will commence as soon as the last US Soldier loads up on his plane. There will be absolute chaos, and the next Saddam will step up to "lead Iraq into the future".
The only thing you need to know about that future is that it will quickly become a part of Iran, and soon some of those people will be in your neighborhood with visions of your blood flowing. Despite what you might think about our government, this had to be done. The internet can be a great research tool if you would use it to investigate things a bit more. Even better, why don't you pack a few sack lunches, grab some armor, and come one over? I will be glad to take you around Iraq and show you how this place is. You would never want to bad mouth a "mercenary" again. And that, Steve, IS the truth.

Some of my comments above might seem to some of you as extreme or not PC. Oh well. I am not a bigot, nor biased in any other way. I presented generalizations based off of experience and interaction DAILY face to face with Iraqis. I have many Iraqi friends here, and they would laugh at some of the comments made here. I find myself explaining more about the media's representation of Iraq than I do about the wonders of America itself when in conversation with those same Iraqis.

And they would tell you the same thing I did about the ease with which an Iraqi will present his opinion and swear his life to it, regardless of larger groups of witness testimonies stating the opposite.

And once again, JR.

Have you considered the fact that many Iraqis want all contractors out of Iraq, and would very quickly run around and pick up AK casings off the ground to hide evidence? Or just to sell them for the brass they are made of? You can't leave a building unattended for more than a few hours before random people start stealing the bricks and rebar out of it.

Or how about this: the locals must have been experts in crime scene recreation. How fast was the area secured and by whom? How big was the perimeter of "protected" evidence?

Yeah right!! You can't have such a thing in many places in Baghdad. You would invite yourself to become part of the next incident in the news with headlines along the lines of:

"Investigators and other personnel responding to the BW incident were victims of numerous mortar attacks this afternoon."

"Ali-Yahya-Mahmoud" will say anything he is told to say if local militias have his family's life in their hands.

You just display your lack of understanding due to never having been to this country.

Believe it or not, folks.... most Iraqis know better than to get close to these convoys. The majority of casualties involved in these events are people who mean to cause harm to those same "mercenaries".

Mr. John You seem a bit angry. I think you are bias. You related material to politics, cover ups, and insults thrown at your country men.

We are not talking about a solid situation of was there a perceived threat... with several causalities, we are talking about a lot of causalities... you also speak of people picking up bullet casings... yet how would people know which ones are which? From who's guns? Then by chance they got all the ones just fired by the insurgents. Then you speak of people saying anything they have been forced to say because family and or loved ones are in insurgent hands... there was so many witnesses that would have been rather an expensive and very large operation right in the middle of an investigation.

JRDemon, Just like the media, you mince words and paraphrase. And from your last post, I shall retract my previous assumption of your education. We all know what happens when we assume.

You actually seem appalled by these concepts. Such is the nature of the beast. If you think things like that don't happen all the time, you are sadly mistaken. The locals I work with have to lie to their friends and families about where they work to keep them alive. If they are discovered to be working with Americans, they will be killed. And actually JRDemon, I do know what this is about. I spoke of exactly what it is about. The whole perceived threat thing.... it couldn't apply more anywhere else but here. Anyone operating out here has the right to defend himself. Period.

Ok JRDemon you lose this one...

In the Land of the Free, and when I have fought for our rights, are my posts to be edited here?

Are they too controversial?
I am not directly attacking individuals. I am presenting a FACT-BASED debate on opinions. Isn't that news? Doesn't that feed into the hunger felt by ABC?

Tell you what, I am in Iraq, and not a security contractor..... send me an email with some questions. You can quote me. Go for it.

As a matter of fact, since you post contractor's pictures all over this site, why not post my email address here also? I am more than happy to provide you all with insight from someone who is not a security contractor, but is in-country, and has experience that you don't.

Amazing. All I do is change my "name" and provide a little fight for my freedom of speech (which I have already fought for!!), and the entirety makes it through. Thank you, ABC Blog Editor. You deleted many things from my previous postings as "John" in the interest of shortening (I can only assume) my posts. However, you left out some very pertinent facts. Shame on you.

John
AKA Well-Informed

Hey Well-Informed

Go ahead and tell them the way it really is over there.

I hope they listen and belive.

Be safe. Return safe.
Thx for all that you are doing

Bottom Line. We should have left Saddam in. He was our guy before. He kept a lid on things. As you can see, the US and the Iraqi Govt. cant control it. Bush will bankrupt our treasury, The contractors, (some of them obviously deluded wanna be Audie Murphies). How many firefight and how many heros more, much more were there in Vietnam. There was no contractors there. Contractors are businessman who can and could sell their services to the highest bidder. I don't trust anyone who makes alot of money killing people, protecting people under the quise of patriotism. reenlist in the military if you are a true patriot. God bless the National Guardsmen. That is something to be said, that the regular military does resent contractors, at least the ones in my immediate family. The contractors, by theie actions endanger our own troops. Look at Fallujah. So, I think we need to abolish all these contractors, tax their war profits and offer any contractor an officers position in the regular military.

John/Well-informed,
What are doing in Iraq besides posting lengthy commentary on the ABC website?

Tounge_Tyed: Thank you.
San Jose Bob: Bottom line- you don't know the truth behind the atrocities committed by Saddam. His entire country hated him, except those he kept in his pocket. And you must not really even be keeping up with the liberal media. Guess what- it is getting under control. I am here, and I am amazed at how fast things are being handled, given the Iraqi culture. And you're right, there were no contractors in Vietnam, at least not in today's numbers. That's because there was a draft. Think about it.
Yes, contractors do sell their services to the highest bidder. Guess who the highest bidder is? That's right, our beloved country! And most contractors are not the gun-toting security-types that misguided Joe on the street thinks. The vast majority are supporting the military, directly. And the larger majority are either prior military, or regular men and women who are doing the same jobs they would have in the US. Is it wrong to get a huge promotion, if you can handle to danger? And about the enlistment comment> have you yourself served? I have. Now, I have a family to provide for, and a very unique profession that I am being handsomely compensated for.
Chucky> I am 10 hours ahead of the west coast. While you are at work, I am asleep at night. Would you not have a look on the internet before you go to bed if that is your sole means of contact with the outside world? And what I do here is not your concern.

Well, the medium big guy says thanks to the hired guns who have served, at least, his interests so well. Most of the mercs have a fanatical devotion to their clients, so most of these guys really are squeaky clean superpatriots. Like John says, most of these guys are doing honorable work. It's dangerous work, applying analytic vigilance to people's everyday comings and goings that we hardly thing about. Bodyguards have to deal with push and shove violence from mindless drunks or lovers. Or murder attempts from outraged employees or customers. In a hot zone, it takes cold discipline to engage attackers who want someone to die. Get it? If some clients are loose, dirty, and despicable, it's hard to keep your eyes open and closed at the same time. It looks like our Ambassador may be the guy who signed a get-out-of-jail-free card for his guys. A kind of quid pro quo. The Director will disavow all knowledge.

Let's be crystal clear, Blackwater and any other "security" service we hire are mercenaries. Soldiers for hire, period!

My feeling is that if the U.S. needs protection for their diplomats, they should use our military. If we don't have enough troops to do the job, we should either start a draft or get the hell out of Iraq.

Why should these guys get paid multiple times what our brave men and women in uniform are paid? It's an insult to those that are doing the job for duty and honor rather than for the money.

McCormack confirmed Ambassador Richard Griffin had told his staff earlier today he would be submitting his resignation to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, as the Blotter previously reported.

Where do all former Secret Service people end up. At HUD-OIG working for IG Kenneth Donohue, "The Employer of Choice."

BS about terrorist we are fighting is disgusting cover up for US government BS and nonsense in their hospitals defrauding Americans in a phony educational system scam.
Coverup for political people if you like, to keep up with the Joneses. However, if you want to see escalation of violence in the world just keep brainwashing people to become involved in a 'war'.
This 'war' is a sham, only a coverup.
When people get tired enough of hearing this drivel maybe then there will be someone to bring justice to bear on the guilty!