Paula C said :"One note to "Skeptical" and "Ron": I would love to hear your recipe for "perfect parenting".May you never have to walk in the shoes my husband and I had to walk in this past year."

For the record, Paula, I think you misread the name on the post you're responding to. My post was the one above it talking about how to spot a bad group. My personal view is that in many cases, the parents are also victims of these places, although in a less immediate way. What makes these groups dispicable is that they use a family's pain against them. -Skeptimal

Im currently looking for a program for my 16yr old brother-in-law, he's not my child but I care about him, and I would rather see him in a good program, rather than locked up or dead. Does anyone know of any good programs in the Maryland/DC area?

A few kids were killed today at a regular high school in Cleveland. Is there a movement to shut the school down? No Why not? Because the intention of the school is not to kill kids. This is simply an unfortunate incident that happens because of the danger present in the larger society. The intention of the school is to teach. People have to understand the practical aspect of these "boot camps". The boot camps do not exist to abuse kids. They exist to subject kids with behavioral problems to increased stress in a controlled environment. The hope is that misbehaving children will develop the skills and discipline to survive stressful situations and react appropriately. The intention is to provide a simplistic structure where trust of authority is rewarded and rebellion or self-expression is met with stressful resistance. The boot camps are not colleges or trade schools. They do not teach kids to think or allow them to grow emotionally. The boot camps are places of last resort. They are places where self-destructive behaviors can be vigorously challenged and ideally eliminated. There are scores and scores of success stories attributed to boot camps. Parents of these children who died in boot camps have every right and reason to question how and why their son or daughter died. However, aside from holding individual counselors accountable, these parents have no other recourse than the parents of the children who were killed in Cleveland. Sometimes tragedies happen. We do not close schools when they do happen. I believe that we should not close boot camps either.

This is no surprise to me. I knew a kid who was sent to one of these camps by his parents and he ended up dead just 3 days later. The people at the camp, former NAVY SEALS, beat him to death with his own shoes. They said they were trying to teach him "respect". How do you teach someone respect by beating this crap out of them? I don't get it. I chewed his parents out at the funeral, I blamed them for his death then and I still do today. But I also blame the laws of this country that have made it impossible for parents to disipline their own children. When I was a kid, if I did something stupid I got my little butt spanked big time. I'll tell you now that I learned something from that. Nowadays, if a parent lays a hand on their kid they end up in jail and lose everything they have. This country is going to Hell in a handbasket, and not one of you people out there is doing a damn thing about it. Think about that for a while.

There is apparently a big difference between boot camps and therapeutic wilderness programs run by licensed professionals. Our daughter benefitted greatly from the latter. To those of you out there questioning the parenting skills of people whom you have never met, I offer the following: Don't you have anything better to do than spewing reactionary rhetoric on subjects you know nothing about? I think I know the answer.

Those of you telling us to "raise our own children" have obviously never had a child who is-to put it mildly-difficult. My son had problems with authority from the time he was 2 years old. We took him to counselors for years. He didn't listen at home or at school. We tried different forms of punishment but nothing worked. We had 3 other children in the home that he became violent with at the drop of a hat. We sent him to a facility in our state and he manipulated the system. He ended up going to 6 different juvenile facilities before he was 18. He is now in prison in Missouri, serving time for burglary. I'm sure that this will not be his only stint in prison. He never received the help he needed and it had nothing to do with our parenting skills. We have 3 other children who excel in school and life. So maybe people shouldn't judge too harshly until they've walked in our shoes.

As a student who has gone through several "wilderness" programs, I can say I have never heard of this kind of stuff. I would say these are exceptions by poorly run camps. It should be understood that being out of civilization has certain risks and just like going into the ocean you are assuming those risks by engaging in the activity. Stick with well known, well established organizations( Children of the Earth Foundation, Tom Brown jr.'s Tracker School, Outward bound) you will have a great adventure.
Skeptimal, I have been taught in some of my classes by a man named Bill . He is a wonderful man. He is in Maryland and DC area for inner city kids in the area. Look up the organization see if that is what is you are looking for. If you are willing to go into southern NJ, there is the Coyote Tracks program which I took and I can't reccomend highly enough. Infact, I plan on volunteering or interning there next summer in order to give back some of what they have given me.

Whether we're talking about a boot camp, a wilderness therapy program or a behavior modification boarding school, there is one fact they all share: there is no clinical evidence that the therapeutic methods these programs use do any good at all. But there is an increasing body of anecdotal evidence that they can do great harm.

Sharon,
in regards to your comment on the parents trying to "act like parents" to solve the behavioural problems of a delinquent adolescent I have different perspective to offer. While you may have been the model child and perhaps a model parent whose children would never dream of defying you, this is not always the case. There are some children who, by no fault of the parent, cannot be reached by conventional means. There are plenty of situations where a child is rebellious to the point where they put themselves into harms way, and no matter what restrictions the parent's put upon the chid, no matter the dicipline used, they cannot reach their child--these same parents use the same methods on their other children and they haven't the same problems as the rebellious one. Everyone, including teenagers, is different and though some may think it is the case, teenagers cannot be trained like dogs to obey.
So before you cast such distain upon those parents who have exhausted all other methods and seek to try less conventional "boot camps" to save their child, remember that while your theory is beautiful one, it is not accurate.
These events at these tough love boot camps described are terrible, yes, but for those programs out there that have the qualified staff and responsible ways of dealing with these troubled teens, they are sometimes the only thing that can save an adolescent who cannot be reached by other methods.

This isn't new news. I was in a military academy between the ages of 7 and 13. I saw and experienced "alot" I hope no one ever goes though. My story is much longer than anyone has time or patience to read, here. Fast forward 45 years. I'm a husband, father of an emotionally disabled child, Viet Nam Vet, college grad several times over, retired althlete, and current HS teacher. I don't remember who started this bru-ha-ha. But the fact of the matter is parents have to be concerned, informed, and down-to-earth about what's right and good for THEIR kids. The government, the press, and even your relatives cannot and should not decide what's best for an out-of-control child. I pulled myself out of a downward trend. I didn't sue anyone. I sought professional help, and I complained and cried alot. But eventually I became a success. Wena; your'e right. No one should judge and no one can predict!
Some might say: "it's in the hands of the stars". I think it's in the hands, head, and heart of the person.

To the Dad who would give anything in the world to not have taken his daughter to that place- this has to be one of the very worst feelings that any parent can have- may God help you to get through this horrible time. He would not have wanted anything to happen to your daughter and He would not want you to spend the rest of your life hating yourself for what happened. I know it is hard to believe He can make a difference in your heart and bring healing out of this but He can. PARENTING IS NOT FOR COWARDS IT CAN BE SO HARD SOMETIMES ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE OF US WITH DIFFICULT KIDS AND YEARS OF PAINFUL CIRCUMSTANCES. may God bless,help and heal you. you are in the prayers of many.

I am an outdoor educator who takes children on outdoor adventures for 2 weeks at a time. Living in the wilderness entails each person to be responsible for all of their belongings. The counselors carry much more than their own weight in materials to begin with and to ask them to carry the weight of the campers as well is literally impossible.
I believe that the parents should be held just as accountable in these situations seeing that those parents should have done their own research into the types of activities that their children will be in because living outdoors isn't a game it is serious and you must be aware of the risks.
By law, I, nor any other counselor can force a child to drink water so if they refuse, the only option I have is to send them home, and if I am out in the wilderness for weeks at a time, that option is much more difficult than one would imagine.

The article is very misleading. "...has found evidence of hundreds, if not thousands, of allegations of death and physical, sexual and emotional abuse."

Really thousands dead? This was the same open ended misleading type of comments the GAO put out.

If this is a business (which I would assume there are much easier ways to make a buck in the USA), I think it is much better left that way. At least there will remain a natural competition to deliver the very best service. The alternative is to hand it over to the Government who happens to have a terrible track record of "correctional insinuation's."

Further, I would imagine that their are many more satisfied families out there than what has been presented, otherwise this industry would have never gotten off the ground or made it this far anyway.

One sided reporting Brian Ross style...

I am still in the middle of the struggle with my 17 yr old who is currently in a theraputic hospital. However, in desperation at 14 yrs old we did send her to a "boot camp" facility in Montana. We found out a young girl also died at this faciity right before we left our daughter in this totally out of the way place in the mountains. After less than 90 days there, we were asked to come and get her because she was "too difficult". However, we were still on the hook for a year's worth of treatment that we still owe approximately $15K. I am curious if Mr. Ross's investigation involved any of the financial burden parents place themselves with these facilities. This is in addition to all the other treatment we are continuing to try to pay for. I will pay it. Whatever it takes to get help for my child. BUT, I strongly resent the implication that we are somehow shirking our responsibiity as parents to have sent her to this facility. We were desperate for help with an out of control child. And yes, we have 2 other children that did not go through any of these struggles.

This is sick. Any person who would do this crap to children and teens is apparently sick in the head. I am soo sorry for the parents and i personally think each of the people in charge of these camps should have a life sentence to jail. Children are what makes society grow and if we turn them into depressed suicidal people are future is dim indeed.

The reason why there are no viable examples of sexual abuse is because it is nearly impossible to prove, a lot of girls don't mention it until years later, a lot of boys never mention it at all. The first poster needs to get a clue.

Just like looking for a doctor, you can not go bargain shopping with wilderness programs. I ask Brian Ross to look into the reputable programs that are being run by several groups. Parents must take the advice of professionals and ask them for a referral to one of these wilderness programs. My husband and I sent our oldest daughter into a wilderness program last February. As the weeks passed, the letters became progressively better. She talked of the inner peace she was coming to find learning to rely on herself and get away from the bad choices she had made at home. It is naive to say parents are responsible for raising their chidren and making the hard choices. I beg to say that no parent who has placed their child in a wilderness program has not made the hardest choice of their life. Maybe they should have continued on the destructive path until the child became incarcerated and a tax burdeon to society? Our daughter spent 7 weeks in the widerness and came out the child we had known 4 years prior to wilderness. She was ready to go on to the next step for her which was emotional growth boarding school. She is looking forward to returning to her wilderness program to visit her therapist who still keeps in touch with me. She is doing college prep work, succeeding in school, and looking forward to college next year. Best of all she loves being with her family! Is she perfect? No, she's just not destroying herself and her life anymore.
When looking for a program, ask these things:
1. How much does it cost? A reputable facility charges $400-500 a day.
2. Ask for the name and qualifications of the therapists on staff.
3. Do they offer weekly family therapy and weekly conference calls with your child's therapist?
4. Ask specifics about what sort of expectations they place on their students? Are they pressured to perform tasks?
5. What are they being fed on the outings? Our program found a suitable protein for our daughter since she didn't like their choices.
6. What are the sleep arrangements?
7. What are the medical limitations of a program? (No program we researched would take a aptient that was a suicide risk)
8. What is the goal for you child at the end of the program? Not one reputable program we researched said they were a cure all. They all said this was step one. We knew we were going to have to continue in some sort of therapeutic school. And no, they were not asking us to go to a school from their parent company.
9. Educate yourself. Weigh out the options. SPEAK to parents who have sent their chidren through a program.
10. Make sure instructors on the trail have emergency communication devices at all times.
11. If you feel like the place you've gone to isn't right for your child, leave and find someplace else. Upon delivering out daughter, my husband said he could immediately tell she was in good hands. How? The staff that we corresponded with 2-4 times weeky came topersonally welcome him. They wanted him to know that they were accessible for our calls at ALL times.
Again, I encourage Brian Ross to contact me and my husband. We'll be happy to do the article on ABC which helps parent learn how to pick a good program. This would have been very informative in addition to this piece. I hope the information above can help some poor parents faced with one of the most diificult choices.

these programs should be ashamed of themselves... they have been entrusted with the lives of children and have acted with gross neglect

Then lawmakers should free parents to discipline their children without the threat of being brought up on "abuse" charges by the kids and backed by the "authorities" like it was prior to the mid-1980s! Disipline begins at the home, even occasional "corporal punishment". Most of us "boomers" got our dose, and the majority of us are very stable and humane.

As tragic as the deaths were, there are many good quality programs out there who have had NO deaths and have done a lot of good for these kids. The good programs are not punitive, but are instead therapeutic. Sometimes the alternative to these type of programs is incarceration. Does anyone think that is a better option? How many kids that are incarcerated have been sexually assaulted and killed in jail? To close these programs is a knee jerk reaction. Regulate them, certainly, and close the poor ones, but keep the good ones open to keep helping parents and their kids.