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Exclusive: Only Three Have Been Waterboarded by CIA
November 02, 2007 1:25 PM
For all the debate over waterboarding, it has been used on only three al Qaeda figures, according to current and former U.S. intelligence officials.
As ABC News first reported in September, waterboarding has not been used since 2003 and has been specifically prohibited since Gen. Michael Hayden took over as CIA director.
Officials told ABC News on Sept. 14 that the controversial interrogation technique, in which a suspect has water poured over his mouth and nose to stimulate a drowning reflex as shown in the above demonstration, had been banned by the CIA director at the recommendation of his deputy, Steve Kappes.
Hayden sought and received approval from the White House to remove waterboarding from the list of approved interrogation techniques first authorized by a presidential finding in 2002.
The officials say the decision was made sometime last year but has never been publicly disclosed by the CIA.
THE BLOTTER RECOMMENDS
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- Exclusive: Sources Tell ABC News Top Al Qaeda Figures Held in Secret CIA Prisons
- CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described
- Full Blotter Coverage CIA Secret Prisons
One U.S. intelligence official said, "It would be wrong to assume that the program of the past moved into the future unchanged."
A CIA spokesman said, as a matter of policy, he would decline to comment on interrogation techniques, "which have been and continue to be lawful," he said.
The practice of waterboarding has been branded as "torture" by human rights groups and a number of leading U.S. officials, including Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., because it amounted to a "mock execution."
It has been at the center of the debate that threatens to derail the confirmation of President George Bush's attorney general nominee, Michael Mukasey.
As a result of Hayden's decision, officials say, the most extreme technique left available to CIA interrogators would be what is termed "longtime standing," which includes exhaustion and sleep deprivation with prisoners forced to stand handcuffed, with their feet shackled to the floor.
The most effective use of waterboarding, according to current and former CIA officials, was in breaking Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, known as KSM, who subsequently confessed to a number of ongoing plots against the United States.
A senior CIA official said KSM later admitted it was only because of the waterboarding that he talked.
Ultimately, KSM took responsibility for the 9/ll attacks and virtually all other al Qaeda terror strikes, including the beheading of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl.
"KSM lasted the longest under waterboarding, about a minute and a half, but once he broke, it never had to be used again," said a former CIA official familiar with KSM's case.
ABC News first reported on waterboarding in November 2005 as part of a George Polk Award-winning series of reports on the agency and its practices. In that report, CIA sources outlined for ABC News a list of harsh interrogation techniques approved by the Bush administration in a "Presidential Finding," which authorized the use of the techniques on a narrow range of "high-value" targets.
The CIA sources described the list of six "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" instituted in mid-March 2002 and used, they said, on a dozen top al Qaeda targets incarcerated in isolation at secret locations on military bases in regions from Asia to Eastern Europe. According to the sources, only a handful of CIA interrogators are trained and authorized to use the techniques:
1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.
2. The Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.
3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.
4. Longtime Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.
5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.
6. Waterboarding (as demonstrated in the picture above): The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.
According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the waterboarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in.
Contacted after the completion of the ABC News investigation, CIA officials would neither confirm nor deny the accounts. They simply declined to comment.
Do you have a tip for Brian Ross and the Investigative Team?
November 2, 2007 | Permalink | User Comments (79)
Somebody's nose is growing.
Posted by: fletch | Nov 2, 2007 1:51:25 PM
This is not an exclusive. This was on NBC News site in Sept.
Posted by: Mark | Nov 2, 2007 1:58:25 PM
Okay now al Qaeda knows what to expect. Great. Why is it that we worry so much about how the enemy is treated and not so much about how the enemy treats our prisoners? Doesn't anybody remember the beheadings?
Posted by: Boatsun | Nov 2, 2007 1:59:27 PM
water boarding does not seem to be torture to me. the enemy cuts your head off, cuts limbs off to everyone. the enemy kills women, children and our troops with no regard. we do have regard for life. our goal is information, not lets see how we can torture the enemy. now to hear this has happened to only 3 of the thousands of enemy combatants! big deal.
Posted by: MarinesCallmeDoc | Nov 2, 2007 2:00:57 PM
SO -- this is only a simulation... based on what... this picture is only meant to inflame...... since you really don’t know what the conditions were or what really took placed when they were using this technique on these scum bags.... ABC needs to stop using fake pictures... So now the enemy knows some of our techniques for getting them to spill their guts..... so they can train against them...... It's great how our own media helps out the enemy....
Posted by: FidoNY55 | Nov 2, 2007 2:01:06 PM
That is three times more than I tolerate as a proud American. We can NEVER become the enemy. The ends never justify the means if it requires us to ignore our oath to the Constitution.
Posted by: Brent | Nov 2, 2007 2:09:41 PM
I don't know much about torture, but I have to wonder if it waterboarding works in 14 seconds wouldn't you want to use it? How long do the others forms of torture take before you get information. Also if we haven't used it since 2003 why do we need to know specifically if Michael Mukasey agrees with using it or not?
Posted by: texan | Nov 2, 2007 2:15:17 PM
That makes it alright then. The CIA have only used int three times on Senior Al Qaeda figures.
How many prisoners has it been used on by the people the CIA outsource torture to. Egypt, Jordan, Poland, etc etc etc.
Posted by: Chris | Nov 2, 2007 2:19:53 PM
Why is it that we worry so much about how the enemy is treated and not so much about how the enemy treats our prisoners?
We worry about how we treat our prisoners because we are civilized country, sir, or we used to be before George Jr. took office.
PS: Our torture of prisoners is widely known -- they have wall murals all over Iran of the Abu Ghraib photos, and don't think that they aren't remembered when one of our boys gets captured.
Dear Marines: if you support torture, as you say you do, you are just another terrorist and deserve to be treated as one.
Posted by: Rex Galella | Nov 2, 2007 2:22:11 PM
I hope that we all remember the fact that we are a civilized nation. Regardless what those jackals do, we should never stoop to their level. The Geneva Convention was put it place to remind us of the horrors of war and what mankind is capable of.
Don't discard our principals.
Posted by: H. L. | Nov 2, 2007 2:22:45 PM
Don't forget this is just CIA interrogation. Suspects were flown by the CIA to third parties in other countries where nobody knows what horrors were committed.
Posted by: Tom | Nov 2, 2007 2:23:44 PM
Nope, no one in the Media remembers the beheadings and torture of American Soldiers - now or in the past. The media refuses to embellish them like they have these so called torture techniques the US uses (they are actually defined as interrogation methods - yet the media likes to make them more course by referencing them in a ugly manner). It does not grab headlines nor the population the media wants to solicit. The Taliban beheaded many in the Pakistan Army last week and there was only one sentence about it from many of the major news sources. Apparently its "In Vogue" to belittle the US with biased reporting. Ask Brian Ross why he does this, you won't get an answer.
Posted by: Rin Tin Tin | Nov 2, 2007 2:25:02 PM
But,but, John McCain made a statement that we never do this stuff...who's lying?
Posted by: Rick_VT | Nov 2, 2007 2:26:01 PM
I took the oath of office twice. Let's see: support, protect, defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic; don't sell the office; bear true faith and allegiance. Hmm, nothin' in there about no aggressive interrogation!
Dunk 'em!
Posted by: Chris | Nov 2, 2007 2:27:16 PM
As a Proud American also, who served his country. I say water boarding is ok.. if there is 220 volts hooked to them.. These are people who kill men, women and children without any remorse.. They hi jack airplanes and fly them into buildings, the kid nap people and force then to drive a vehicle full of explosives into a crown to be detonated.. I think that any Enhanced Interrogation Techniques should be used. Much worst then those on this list. And to all those bleeding hearts out there who disagree, Please go to Iraq and interrogate those who were captured and see what kinda of intelligence you get using hugs and kisses.. Did you forget that this is a war and the intelligence we get may save Americans lives?
Posted by: Dan Fisher | Nov 2, 2007 2:30:47 PM
If you approve of waterboarding for terror suspects, why don't we allow our local police to do it?
Think of all the confessions they'd get, just like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who confessed to almost every crime since the Lindberg kidnapping! Think of all the money we'd save in court costs with 100% guilty pleas.
Posted by: Dennis M | Nov 2, 2007 2:32:18 PM
Impeach Bush as a war criminal. This is a criminal act from local to the world level of authority. It was never legal except inside a corrupt circle. This is the act of war criminals. This has put the USA on the level of terrorists. HOW DARE YOU! How dare you take the country I love for its prior virtue and flush it away for all of us? HOW DARE YOU! To get a confession under torture? It was not worth the integrity of a nation. Bush you bargained away the soul of America.
Posted by: DF | Nov 2, 2007 2:37:40 PM
Try training against being in a 50 degree cell getting doused with cold water when you live in a country that is a hot desert. Or even standing... eventually you give out on either of those.
Those are techniques that would seem to get the job done.
The next AG needs to not only be against torture but also willing to investigate Nixon... I mean GW :)
Posted by: Mike | Nov 2, 2007 2:42:42 PM
Can anyone explain why beheadings or other atrocities done by others has anything to do with this debate? Are you saying that its OK for us to torture because others do? And for those who don't think waterboarding is torture, why did we prosecute Japanese officers for war crimes for waterboarding in WWII? And why does John McCain (former POW) call it torture? Suffocating someone until they believe they are drowning isn't torture? Why not just attach electrodes to their genitals and shock them, or isn't that torture either? It's about who we are, not who they are.
Posted by: D | Nov 2, 2007 2:43:59 PM
Maybe Scooter Libby could have benefited from some waterboarding
Posted by: richy_cheney | Nov 2, 2007 2:45:35 PM
How about using it to save American lives????!!!!!!!!?
I am a mom, wife, business owner.
When will libs realize that your everyday, common person DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THIS?
That is why the Democratic Party will NEVER get it together. Its constituents are Nascar Bluecollars who don't give a damn if we HAVE to torture a little bit to save our country if it comes down to it. I am plain folk, but I am also college educated, though i admit I am not as educated, and therefore, not as progressive thinking as your average college professor, but like him/ her, I obviously have an agenda!!!!! Anyone who might put themselves in the way of possibly being tortured doesn't care to live or die, anyways. And they sure the hell don't respect any treaties signed about treatment of prisoners. They're gonna torture you if they get the chance!!!!!!!!! GOD IN HEAVEN, LIBS GET SOME BRAINS FOR THE SAKE OF THE COUNTRY
Posted by: anitamom | Nov 2, 2007 2:52:49 PM
You are wrong my friend. When it means American lives vs. 90 seconds of terror to the animals we have to deal with...yes, the ends DO justify the means. How can anyone with an IQ above 90 compare waterboarding to beheading someone with a dull knife?
Posted by: Mike | Nov 2, 2007 2:55:28 PM
I remember the beheadings. That made them appear the worst. But we are now a nation known world wide for torture. The world now regards the USA on the same level. But torture is a inarguably a sicker pursuit than execution. The administration is sicker than the terrorist beheadings. Who is sicker, a person that kills a cow or the person that tortures a cow? Who is sicker, a person that kills a dog or the person that tortures a dog? Shouldn't torturing a human, or listing the accepted forms of torturing humans, build an outrage that's higher than for the dog or cow? Imagine Bush himself performing those things on a dog. Your dog. What would you do to him. What would you think of someone doing that stuff to your dog? Now take it back up to reality and he's doing it to people. He's done it to the innocent and the guilty as if he is in the position of God like judgment.
Posted by: DF | Nov 2, 2007 2:56:52 PM
"The ends never justify the means if it requires us to ignore our oath to the Constitution."
What does the Constitution have to do with non-US citizens who are terrorists?
Posted by: Michael Jankowski | Nov 2, 2007 2:58:37 PM
Ummm....Brent, if we were becoming the enemy we would have just summarily executed these guys. Perhaps, slit their throats from ear to ear, as is the common practice amongst AQ and its ideological kin.
Posted by: Jon | Nov 2, 2007 3:00:20 PM
To Brent: These are prisoners of war, non American citizens and do not have protection under our constitution. I think you may need to take a refresher civics class. You may be surprised to know that our own special forces soldiers endure the same techniques above during their training so that they can know what to expect. In fact, many of them return home, after their training, covered in cuts and bruises. Unfortunately, there isn't anything that can prepare them for a beheading.
Posted by: Tracy | Nov 2, 2007 3:05:05 PM
I agree with "MarinesCallmeDoc".
They do horrible things - we just fake them out with waterboarding? You cant even compare! How else do you expect to get the needed information?
Posted by: bluejackets | Nov 2, 2007 3:08:20 PM
No Physical damage and only the psychological damage in order to gain the information that could in effect save thousands of lives. Well then lets get to waterboarding! I am all in favor of using this technique, despite its psycholigical effect on a combatant that is willing to give their own lives in order to kill thousands of Americans, strap on suicide belts for anyone that may not agree with their fanatical ways, behead innocent civilians. It seems like the least we can do is waterboard them in attempts to get them to provide information related to the safety and security of innocent civilians anywhere in cases where they otherwise would not provide the information. They still get to keep their life and we get to save ours, seems like splitting hairs, but they are not subjected to any real physical harm in the process. If they were in a "normal" battlefield situation, which most people dont realize how much the field of battle has changed, then the means to the end is typically not questioned, except in rare instances. Maybe we should just pat them on the back, give them a few bucks, appologize, and send them back out their to try again. Trying sleeping better when the enemy conbatant is slicing the throats of friends and loved ones or do you toss and turn too much knowing that the combatant had a bit of water poured over their head to prevent bloodhsed among innocent lives. I can sleep just fine with the minor psychological damage inflicted to a enemy combatant, and wonder how many of us would sign up to enforce this interogation technique? Put me in coach, I am ready to play!
Posted by: Big Dog | Nov 2, 2007 3:09:38 PM
Hmmm, dunking someone in water is hardly as extreme as say cutting heads off. If force is needed to save our peoples lives I have no qualms. If you think otherwise fly to a terrorist stronghold and explain to them how much you love them. You'll have a starring role in thier next video.
Posted by: Bob | Nov 2, 2007 3:19:15 PM
Navy SEALs use this technique as during BUDS. What's the problem?
Posted by: USMCInfantry | Nov 2, 2007 3:25:29 PM
I fiqure CIA math is kinda like dog years so if they admit to 3 that translates to 142 or therabouts....
Posted by: GM | Nov 2, 2007 3:31:00 PM
How many Nazi generals did we waterboard or otherwise torture during WWII? Zero. While the Nazis were burning millions of human beings in ovens we gave captured Nazi officers villas and gourmet meals. By the end of the war Germans were surrendering in droves to US forces, rather than get captured and tortured by our Soviet allies.
Posted by: D | Nov 2, 2007 3:35:16 PM
I still am amazed that we have tolerated our leaders violating a treaty that our country has agreed to. Do we have any integrety as a nation anymore? The Geneva Accord forbade torture. Waterboarding has always been described as a torture. I am amazed that our leaders are still in office. They have violated our laws and the Constitution.
Posted by: Coosa | Nov 2, 2007 3:46:49 PM
Sooooooo the CIA have only used it 3
times???? Oh Puleezzzzeeeee!!!!!! I wonder
how many prisoners have died and the Bushite Adminstration are covering it up.
There were many prisoners at Guantanamo
that were moved and human rights groups
do not know where they are. They are missing....Hmmmmmmm...............
Posted by: Sylvia | Nov 2, 2007 3:46:53 PM
D at 3:35 - Well, we did firebomb entire cities full of German civilians. A tad more violent than waterboarding.
Posted by: Josiah | Nov 2, 2007 3:50:10 PM
Well D, lets just bake them some cookies with milk, and invite them for Thanksgiving dinners where they can either surrender to us in droves or slice our throats while we sleep. The battlefield has changed, times have changed, procedures need to change also. I am not for putting the enemy combatants up in villas and givng them gourmet meals, make them earn it with a good waterboarding! Better yet bring them all to Texas where if 3 or more people see you commit the crime, you move to the front of the line, after waterboarding of course!
Posted by: Big Dog | Nov 2, 2007 3:58:21 PM
Torture is against the law. Period.
It is a CRIME! Impeach.
Posted by: oren | Nov 2, 2007 4:13:04 PM
Brent;
I am sorry to say...but "Dunk Them"...
the means does justify the end...
"Saving American Lives"
These are "TERROIST" repeat "TERROSIT"
that want to kill us...
I am sure if your family was being held by these "TERROIST" and they only had a few hour before the will be "MURDERED"....you will be dunking them yourself!!!!!!!!!
Libs please wake up these "TERROIST" want to kill you and your families...stop worrying about them and start worrying about the "USA" !!!!!!
Posted by: Carlos | Nov 2, 2007 4:19:13 PM
If the CIA ADMITS to three, it is probably REALLY somewhere around 300.
Posted by: Leprkin | Nov 2, 2007 4:22:19 PM
This torture is disgusting and should be discontinued.
Posted by: denn034 | Nov 2, 2007 4:27:55 PM
Just as you can't defend freedom by taking it away, you can't fight terrorism by using torture. WE have no credibility in the world's eyes because we invade soveriegn nations without just cause, claim to spread democracy while we support criminal regimes and claim the moral high ground as we tortue people. Our Nation is led by war criminals and only we are to blame. This is our country and we allow it to be owned by the elite as their feeding trough. Wake up!
Posted by: Rich | Nov 2, 2007 4:30:10 PM
I can not believe how dense some of you are. You guys comparing previous wars to this one. Comparing these Terrorists to the Nazi's, or whomever. Guess what, THIS IS NOT THE SAME ENEMY NOR THE SAME WAR!
Even the beloved hillary (lower case) said torture may be necessary in some cases. I know it would be fine if she did it.
I fear for the future. The future of this country if a liberal gets elected. I can see an event happening that makes 9-11 look like a fire cracker,..., that could have been prevented if something more than tickling the enemy could be used to get info.
You all are just against whatever can be contributed to Dubya. I can pretty much guarantee that if this shoe were on the other foot, the liberals would be all for it, and would see reason, if it meant saving their family in the future.
I would hate to say, but having lost beloved people on that horrible day, these practices are unimportant as compared to losing loved ones.
When I said this is a different war, we have an insane number of people wanting to destroy our nation... completely. And all of this in an unprecedented manner. There is no comparison.
I can not understand why people want to go to bat for people who want to see you die in the most painful way possible. These people are not dying through this. They are experiencing fear in a much shorter than those who lost their lives on those planes.
The dems are doing everything they can possibly do to make this a less secure nation. God protect us.
Posted by: Lamma | Nov 2, 2007 4:36:00 PM
Big Dog - so I guess the "Greatest Generation" were a bunch of wimps. Seems to me they figured out how to defeat two major world powers (who, unlike the AQ terrorists, actually had a chance to destroy the US) in 4 1/2 years.
Posted by: D | Nov 2, 2007 4:54:45 PM
Lets not make all of this a bigger deal than it is. The CIA is securing our nation from further harm, and frankly the media or general public for that matter does not need to worry about what methods we use to keep us safe. Dont think for a minute George Washington and the Continental Army did not use torture to extract information from the English.
Posted by: David | Nov 2, 2007 5:03:23 PM
It amazes me the division between the feeble minded majority and intelligent minority in this country. To use the fact that the enemy tortures us worse that we do them to justify our own uncivilized behavior reminds me of the same logic that children use on a playground. I really hope that this time is just a phase in American history and that through an improvement in education (including more humanities courses in both high school and college) that we develop a more intelligent populace. This sounds elitest, but it's the truth. Europe is not elitest, after all, just more open-minded and better educated. It shows in their policies and willingness to follow international law.
Posted by: Brett G | Nov 2, 2007 5:37:43 PM
Waterboarding is necessary to save lives? OK, I might buy that, although torturing people does not guarantee accurate information in any way.
REGARDLESS, we should never begin to sacrifice our moral high ground. We have started a bad precedent here. Right now we're using it to save us from terrorists. If this becomes acceptable practice overseas on them, it will only continue to expand in use. We could save many lives here if we were allowed to waterboard U.S. citizens... If we could've waterboarded John Wayne Gacey, that would've saved at least a couple young boys from being raped, tortured, and killed. The use of torture on U.S. citizens that engage in terrorism by raping or murdering can definately be made using this logic.
Those of us that are anti-torture are not so much worried about protecting the rights of murderers, rapists, or terrorists. We are worried about the implications of accepting torture in practice, and abandoning our moral principles. Because once you start, you always go farther, and most of the time you don't realize how far you've really gone until it's already gone way too far.
Yes, what they do as terrorists is far worse than waterboarding. But I will not see my country start down an immorral path which leads to us being even slightly comparable!
Posted by: Cam | Nov 2, 2007 5:52:39 PM
Your all dumb thinking, "Oh no their going to invade my country!" or "Their taking away our freedom!" and other dumb remarks like that. Please go look into what’s really happening and not what the government tells you. These people never were a threat to the US. People messed up in their jobs at the airport and let some terrorists get on a plane. This doesn’t mean their going to shoot their rockets over here and take the US over. People you just need to think and look at the facts. At this point the "terrorists" are not and do not have American families held hostage. The only hostages are the ones who go over to fight a pointless war, which will never see a victor.
Posted by: D | Nov 2, 2007 5:59:36 PM
For those who say "Why should we care how we treat prisoners?", you do not understand what is is to be American. Honor, valor, and justice do not belong to the same breed as waterboarding. We have lost our standing in the world and have sunk to the enemy's level. If you can look at a pig eye to eye, didn't you have to get down in the mud with it?
Posted by: Proud American | Nov 2, 2007 6:29:18 PM
Comparing this with WWII is instructive after all.
The contention that we won the war without torturing anyone is farcical.
True, we usually don't "torture " people one at a time.
But in WWII they used flamethrowers on enemy troops, incindiary bombs on his wood and paper cities and the Atom bomb to save the lives of our servicemen and win the war as quickly as you'd like.
The nature of conflict has shifted. we don't flatten
cities full of people these days ....yet.
take the tools out of the hands of the interrogators,who after all , are NOT deaing with
innocents, and then by G-d, you'll have to.
And you'll have to get used to it quick.
Posted by: JimA | Nov 2, 2007 6:59:01 PM
So the problem with waterboarding is that people "break" in 14 secs to a minute. Seems this should be the first technique we use.
Posted by: Chip | Nov 2, 2007 7:14:14 PM
Reading these comments tells me that ABC is finally reaching their core audience, Bush's 28%. I've never seen so many knuckle-draggers in one place except at LGF. Waterboarding is controlled drowning, and it can and has killed people.
If you want US soldiers to be tortured you are approving of the right policies, because the entire world is now going to start justifying their own torture policies because you idiots bought into the scare-mongering of Little Boots and Shooter. You have allowed the two most morally degenerate authoritarians in US history to panic an entire country because of a few thousand terrorists in caves. What a sick joke. The most powerful country in the world is changing its entire moral code because Osama bin Laden and George Bush are on the same level, practicing revenge. Only bin Laden is winning by default. He predicted this. He wanted this to happen. He read George Bush like Bush thinks he read Putin. George W Bush is a coward, and cowards react by throwing hissy fits and attacking the defenseless. Attacking Iraq when bin Laden was in Afghanistan was a stroke of real genius, wasn't it. Sure showed bin Laden, didn't it. Oh, wait! He's still alive? Fools. Bush is your real enemy and you are too filled with hate to realize it. You will one day, but by then it will be too late, and the former USA will be a police state.
Posted by: seamus | Nov 2, 2007 7:18:36 PM
Waterboarding was practiced on one another at Fort Bliss, Texas even back in 1981 by 66th MI Co interrogators at the training facility used as a prison camp. It was a tool, vounteers only, to demonstrate just how effective it could be even on the most John Wayne type of person. Supposedly only one volunteer Warrant Officer wasn't broke while using it there. Didn't have tasers to try out on one another back then. Its a crazy world and sometimes it takes a little crazy to straighten things out. But, there is never a good excuse for outright self-serving cold hearted and hateful abuse and torture.
Posted by: Red White & Blue | Nov 2, 2007 7:31:53 PM
It's obviously torture. I grew up believing that my government did not do bad things to people. I grew up loving my country for that.
Then, I went to Vietnam. What I saw there showed me that there are good and bad in just about everybody.
Now that I am an old man, I am ashamed that there are people in this country who act just like the people who are out to harm us.
Pity the human condition and it's sad to know that the Constitution was just a dream.
Posted by: D. Canon | Nov 2, 2007 7:54:32 PM
.
General Michael Hayden has issued his directives concerning acceptable forms of torture (coercive) techniques. Waterboarding IS one of them.
It is highly specious of ABC to report that Waterboarding hasn't occurred since Gen. Hayden took office. It WAS Hayden who clarified the acceptance of it's use.
Either it is torture or it is not.
As ABC News first reported in September, waterboarding has not been used since 2003 and has been specifically prohibited since Gen. Michael Hayden took over as CIA director.
The CIA sources described the list of six "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" instituted in mid-March 2002 and used, they said, on a dozen top al Qaeda targets incarcerated in isolation at secret locations on military bases in regions from Asia to Eastern Europe. According to the sources, only a handful of CIA interrogators are trained and authorized to use the techniques:
6. Waterboarding (as demonstrated in the picture above): The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.
IT CAN NOT BE BOTH!
Yet ABC continues the meme sent out by the W.H.
Propaganda has NEVER been so abundant in America. ABC... delivery system of the W.H. memes.
.
Posted by: Max-1 | Nov 2, 2007 8:24:49 PM
Now we know we can believe Bush, ABC and his puppets he has placed into the positions to cencer and spread the propaganda and BS he wants.
Just as first there were WMD in Iraq and then there were none(and Bush joked about that)
Then it was said that Saddam had ties to the terrorist of 911 and then there were none.
Then Bush stated "mission accomplished" and then the whole d... Iraq war broke out in full blast.
Then they had a democracy government in Iraq, then they had none because they rejected Bush's policies.
Our people by now have to know that most of our elected government officials are behind Bush, Cheney and the criminal activities of his administration.
Posted by: sporty | Nov 2, 2007 8:31:40 PM
Wonder what happen to the dead and missing prisoners that they once held, and now they are gone.
Looks like Germany and the 1930's all over.
Controlled news media.
Use religion for their political powers
Spy on what it's citizens say, do and go.
All resistances to his policies is punished strickly upon his command.
What ever he speaks becomes law.
No law or persons control what he does or restrain any of his actions.
Why go any farther, look up a dictator in the dictionary.
Posted by: Sporty | Nov 2, 2007 8:47:44 PM
The first problem with water-boarding or any other torture is that the US is endorsing it against our soldiers and civilians through its use. How are we distinguishing ourselves? The next problem is that we are creating terrorists but proving we believe we are above the law. By using our suffering in the 911 attack as an excuse to be sadistic in return, we are not offering an alternative to using any means neccesary to achieve our end. At that point, it no longer matters to anyone but us whether we are sincere. We are simply unprincipled.
Posted by: kent Jensen | Nov 3, 2007 2:23:22 AM
Waterboarding saved US Lives. Making these unilateral agreements is idiotic. When AL QAIDA signs on to the Geneva Convention then I would agree not to waterboard.
Posted by: Dennis D | Nov 3, 2007 9:01:21 AM
muslim terrorists bomb, behead and brutalize and the American left gets all upset about this?!?!
Posted by: Paul Rexon | Nov 3, 2007 9:45:07 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong...I'll return the favor. The U.S. was a party to the Geneva Conventions, but has not signed the Accords. When I served in the Army, I was indoctrinated (kind of had it repeated over and over)in the Geneva Conventions for treatment of prisoners and non-combatants. Hysteria, anger, bigotry, and hypocrisy have no place in our foreign policy. The problems they create are not with our enemies so much as they are with us. What happens in Vegas does NOT stay in Vegas, no matter what the neofascists say. We cannot allow dehumanization of ANY people, no matter what George Bush says.
Posted by: Mike Maus | Nov 3, 2007 10:23:36 AM
To the idiot libs who claim that we are becoming like the enemy:
Why is it so hard for you to distinguish between torturing innocents (our enemies) and torturing terrorist masterminds who are planning mass murder?
You 'progressives' act like you stand for morals and human rights, but you wouldnt waterboard a mass murderer like KSM to save the lives of thousands of innocent men women and children. You defend the murderer so that the innocent can die and then try to argue on the basis of morality.
The insanity is palpable.
Posted by: Dan | Nov 3, 2007 9:41:41 PM
Isn't this what's called a "limited hangout"? Admit to doing something wrong - waterboarding 3 people in this "cellophane" method - to cover up the larger lie.
I have no doubt that when people start to talk about what has actually been happening since 2001, we will find out that the numbers are much larger. Judging from previous episodes, that won't happen for decades, when people start to near their own death.
The waterboarding described here hardly seems to compare to what experts have described, with rags stuffed down throats and lungs literally filling with water. This is the kinder, gentler waterboarding of compassionate conservatism, I suppose.
Posted by: Dumbfounded | Nov 5, 2007 8:36:50 AM
Option One: Waterboard a terrorist for a couple minutes, thereby avoiding larger conflict and bringing a quick end to a war.
Option Two:
Lock the terrorist away in a cell for the rest of his life while the conflict rages, and his cohorts continue to terrorize and kill innocents.
Liberals choose option two so they don't have to abandon their principles. But, wait. Their principles demand a quick end to war. (oh, the dillema)
Which to choose? Agressive interrogation and a quick end to the war, or reject said aggressivness and suffer long-term death, destruction and war. Choices, choices. What to do. Tick, tock,...
Oop. To late. Terrorist cohort shoots liberal. Liberal's problem is now solved. Because now that the liberal is dead it is no longer necessary to have to make the hard decision.
Posted by: Lawrence | Nov 5, 2007 2:18:44 PM
Waterboarding is not a form of torture. You should have seen the way we handled prisoners that didn't talk during WWII. Wasn't any damn media around then to keep us from doing our jobs and defeating the Japanese and Germans.
Posted by: L. Conklin | Nov 5, 2007 3:01:28 PM
This is not an accurate description, the article shows its agenda by what it leaves out. As if it is just wrapping saran wrap over the face and "pouring water" over you until "a panic" sets in and you confess. No. Lies. Water boarding or "water torture" as its been called, involves your feet being higher than your head, water being forced into your lungs, and abject terror. Don't forget someone is holding you down, dominating you, forcing you to suffer. If you think this is okay to do to people to "get information" then you are no better than any enemy, and all is fair, and you deserve no empathy.
Posted by: Dreadnaught | Nov 6, 2007 12:04:33 AM
Aggressive interrogation is sometimes necessary. Torture is something else. Is there lasting physical damage? Did the person suffer irreparable physical harm? No they didn't. They were scared. That's all.
Posted by: Joe Pepe | Nov 6, 2007 2:40:33 PM
Not sure how anyone can believe anything coming from Bush and his cronnies.
Posted by: WI | Nov 6, 2007 3:07:16 PM
The Geneva Convention should be preserved and conserved for obvious reasons. You're no different, smarter or intelligent than our "enemies".
Posted by: Liberal 1 | Nov 6, 2007 6:02:55 PM
This is the first time I have ever read actual descriptions of these so-called "extreme techniques". They sound very much like what other kids used to do to each other during play where I grew up. Only, when we were "waterboarded" (we didn't know to call it that), there was no celophane -I am surprised that it works with celophane in place. Nonetheless, I hope this story is true. I did not want to believe that the US uses real torture.
Posted by: Faraway Assumption | Nov 8, 2007 1:18:17 AM
Who are we kidding, torturing prisoners, no matter how evil they "may be", harms us in every possible way. We used to be respected, "the good guys". Now because of 9/11, the ENEMY has "successfully created the theory in some Americans, that torture is OK because these terrorists do worse"?? Now whatever they do will seem less cruel because we ARE doing horrendous things to abuse prisoners which is in direct violation of Human Rights laws. Making us no better then the enemy. How proud does that makes you of our country, and why isn't the media reminding Bush HE BROKE INTERNATIONAL LAWS WHEN HE ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN? Come on media, do your job.
Posted by: ljlu | Nov 8, 2007 5:04:17 AM
Get a clue folks---when it comes to protecting our own innocent citizens, it isn't an issue of "making nice" with the terrorist countries who want to destroy us and our freedoms--who cares WHAT they think, if they want to destroy us--they kill innocents around the world--who CARES what they "THINK" of us? Their thoughts are not loving and kind, no matter what. No, it's not what they "think" of us that matters, it's what they DO to us!
And for the record, does anybody remember history? When Chamberlain wanted to "make nice" with Hitler, did Hitler respect him? Heck no! He ATTACKED England--Churchill was the wiser man--bullies do NOT RESPECT kindness and gentle voices--they only respect force. It wasn't caring about Hitler's OPINION of them that stopped Hitler's brutal slaughtering--it was the strength of the Allies and their willingness to take him on. So if you are truly concerned about our image abroad, consider the fact that only when we show our strength, will the bully countries that terrorize, mutilate and destroy, back off and respect us. But then, if you don't know your history and are brain dead, that won't even make sense to you, will it?
As for the media, they disgust me with their continual siding with the enemy by magnifying anything wrong we do, instead of accurately reporting the good we accomplish world wide--what other country in the world has given so freely of its resources to every other country out there? Can you imagine Iran sending aid to Hurricane Katrina victims! Or Cuba, or Columbia, or China, or...?
I'm tired of people who do not even know how to think or draw logical conclusions--those who emote instead of deal with reality. Let the liberal media and anyone else who doesn't like our wonderful country and all the freedoms we have because loyal patriots fought hard and died for them, stop whining and chose any one of those countries to re-locate in. Nobody else is beating down their doors to get in there--I'm sure they'd have lots of room!
Posted by: Thinker | Nov 9, 2007 9:26:25 AM
When are we going to enter the real world and stop living fantasies?
It is a cruel, ugly world.
Does anyone believe the CIA will follow
the direction of executive leadership?
How soon we have forgotten what kind of war we are in. It is high stakes and the costs of losing any ground is our homeland and our security.
People, get real and wake up to what has to be done.
