It's already been proven that waterboarding or torture doesn't produce the results that all of you Jack Bauer wanna be's think that it does.I think the larger point here is this, the problem with torture is that it's against the law, internationally and domestic. It seems people forget that when they were kids reading through their history books and saw how immoral the Germans were during the war they probably felt proud and took comfort in the fact that the USA was above things like torture, secret detention camps, extrordinary rendition, suspension of Habeas Corpus etc. Now we can't claim that we are a better nation. We have sullied our reputation and our moral standing in the world. And to those that think waterboarding is a great tool. I have only one thing to say. You are scared, frightened little children. When you get scared, you'll do anything to make that feeling go away. Like approving of torture even though it's been proven ineffective, like shrugging your shoulders at incremental civil liberty violations.."I have nothing to hide, they can tap my phone, read my emails..." You scared, sad little children acting tough by giving up your humanity and everything this country stands for to feel just a little safer. Look what this fear mongering administration has done to you. To our country. FDR said.."The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." GWB says "September 11th, be afraid, be very afraid, but don't forget to go shopping. Just be careful." To me the difference is clear. And to all you scared little children that want people to leave the country because we want to protect our country from political and religious (including terrorist) extremism, you first. You obviously are scared to death, or put another way, a Republican voter.

We have to "waterboard", or they'd kill al you sissies. Then there wouldn't be anyone scared enough to vote Republican.

what happen to the liberty and Justice for all and one nation under GOD?

Waterboarding was and is a war crime. After WWII Germans and Japanese who used it on Allied troops were tried and punished for it. Extreme cold and heat are also war crimes and were called such during WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Those who have no children or other relatives serving in the military think torture is okay but start the draft with no exemptions and see how many think it's not torture when used on them or those they care about. The chicken vultures in the White House and Pentagon don't care what happens to the troops. They won't even attend their funerals and they pay mercenaries more and give them immunity for war crimes. The military does care about its own and have said repeatedly that it doesn't work because it doesn't.

Jen Spoken Like a True American. I too feel the same way. I would rather be killed or harmed by a Terrorist than too let my country go down the Terrorist path itself. Only Education can save us from Terrorism and ourselves. People that support unjustified actions, should respect the action when the favor is returned. If we are to be of Higher Moral ground, Then we should demonstrate our Higher Moral ground. America was at one time respected now adays swear word follow comments about America. I a darn shame what we let our country come too. Benjamin Franklin just puked. Geroge Washington has just rolled in his grave. and Tomas Jefferson is just saddly shaking his head in disgust.
Where and when did we loose our way. If we continue on our path we will find out we have left the Great Land once called America. PEOPLE GO GET AN EDUCATION.

Saving Ourselves from Ourselves.

"We have met the enemy and he is us!" - Pogo (an old comic strip character)

There are two types of fear. There is natural fear, which is life giving and there is unnatural fear, which is life destroying. Natural fear is how we react to an immediate threat, like removing our hand from a hot stove. Unnatural fear results when we fail to face up to fearful thoughts and emotions that have no basis in our immediate reality. One popular definition of unnatural "fear" is "False Evidence Appearing Real."

As we think, we create. We know this intuitively so when we imagine a frightening event growing out of something we've done or something we're doing, we fear it might become real, especially when we feel guilt or shame as a result of our own actions or inactions.

We're all going to die some day, some how. Do we want to go out kicking and screaming because we refuse to take responsibility for creating our reality? Or do we want to take responsibility for creating our reality and go out with dignity, knowing we've done the best job we can in creating our reality? Which self, which world do we want to create? The choice is ours to make.

The chinese learned in the 1950's through experimentation on our soldiers from the korean war that torture was the least effective way of getting information. They simply put all the soldiers in one camp. Observed them for awhile then they started dealing with the prisoners. You do a little thing for me, I'll give a treat. The very few prisoners that wouldn't deal were moved to another camp.
Then they began to build relationships with the prisoners and to the horror of our government as these people started coming home they had gotten better intelligence on us from our own soldiers than we had from them.

All by applying psychological techniques to thier intelligence. All and let me reiterate it ALLLLLLL serious evidence in the last 500 years has proved that if you torture people they make up whatever they think you want to hear. Thus every bit of intelligence is suspect and must be completely vetted. It is simply the most inefficient way to gather the TRUTH.

However if you already know what you want them to say. Torture is the way to go.

The pathetic thing about this conversation is our president the directors of the intelligence community are all educated men. They should know better.

Jen Spoken Like a True American. I too feel the same way. I would rather be killed or harmed by a Terrorist than too let my country go down the Terrorist path itself. Only Education can save us from Terrorism and ourselves. People that support unjustified actions, should respect the action when the favor is returned. If we are to be of Higher Moral ground, Then we should demonstrate our Higher Moral ground. America was at one time respected now adays swear word follow comments about America. I a darn shame what we let our country come too. Benjamin Franklin just puked. Geroge Washington has just rolled in his grave. and Tomas Jefferson is just saddly shaking his head in disgust.
Where and when did we loose our way. If we continue on our path we will find out we have left the Great Land once called America. PEOPLE GO GET AN EDUCATION.

"In 1947, the U.S. charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for waterboarding a U.S. civilian."

First of all, Yukio Asano was a civilian interpreter in the service of the IJA, not a military officer. Additionally, he was not charged in this particular instance with "waterboarding"; technically, the intentional and forced ingestion and inhalation of water is known as the "water cure." While highly unpleasant, waterboarding as currently practiced does not involve the intentional and forced ingestion and inhalation of water. A huge and, to many, an inconvenient difference.

Asano was sentenced to 15 yrs of hard labor for an aggragation of crimes: multiple instances of burning prisoners (formally recognized POWs, btw) with lighted cigarettes and participation in acts of water "torture."

Significantly, Asano was prosecuted for violating the "Laws and Customs of War" in that he perpetrated these acts against formally recognized POWs.

While not something that I would wish to experience, it will take more than factually challenged and agenda-driven advocates to convince me that:

A) Waterboarding as currently practiced constitutes an act of "torture."
B) The subjects of waterboarding were, at the time of their interrogation, entitled to protections afforded by the Geneva Convention as pertains to POWs.

"We are better than that" is not an argument.

Bravo, Amendmen7, on your lucid post.
You, too, Lamont Cranston.

Though I note many good arguments here and as a member of the Military I do not condone torture as a means to an end. I, however wish to make a response in regards to Rick's posting.

Rick, it would appear you are misinformed or condone the use of terrorist activities as a means to an end. I would have to ask if you even know anything about the Military and the people who serve. We are like you, ordinary citizens doing a job no one else wants. We follow orders or we go to jail. What happens to you if you don't follow instructions at work? A slap on the wrist, maybe a reprimand, or do you find a new job?

Their is light at the end of the tunnel. Well put ( Lamont Cranston,Amendmen7) all I ask is for an encore.

My god people what in the world are you thinking,what I think is we should do nothing nothing all an let those people that want to harm us do it over an over again an let some of thoses protesterd family get killed for no reason then let me here thier tune.Its always when the shoes on the other foot you see the true person.I hate what thoses people have done to our COUNTRY AN ALL OF THE INNOCENT LIVES THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN B/C OF IT we do to much for other Countries that thank us enough...

Reading through these comments it's plain to see that #1) conservatives are mostly below average in intelligence. Far too many of them write /express themselves at about a fourth or fifth grade level which puts them about 2 grade levels below our Pres. Boy George.
#2)What a bunch of yellow bellied cowards!! 19 guys with box cutters got lucky 6 years ago and you guys immediately give up!! You are too dense to realize that when we react by giving up our own civil rights, they win. When you hysterically trash people who insist our constitution be followed...you've given the terrorists just what they were looking to get. Grow some ####. At some point you have to stop being a bunch of ####### and act like Americans.

So the war between the White House and the CIA continues. The CIA would not back down on the NIE, so a week after it's release a former CIA agent conveniently appears and exposes the agency--all the while maintaining that waterboarding was effective--a fact vehemently denied by FBI agents familiar with the transcripts of the interrogation. Now, watch the WH go behind the scenes to provide legal protection for a former CIA agent who gave up classified info. Valerie Plame would undeerstand.

Before he retires Mr. Bush should issue
a blanket pardon for all the agents and
those who ordered the waterboarding. And
also other rendition methods that have
been done in the past and present. I
wonder if I can get a pardon for the
rendition I and some friends did on a
guy that used to terrorize those who
were subject to his shenanigens? Oh well!....

Man you can you come to america and pass misinformation to media dupes and then write big bucks book, and turn big pile to big $$$ pile? Whatta great cuntry!!! I have no shame or values, they are are for poor fools - Where is journalism class?

Right on Lamont Cranston and may the likes of George Bush be president of this great country ever again!

hi

We need to waterboard the CIA and find out if they waterboarded people.....I think we will get a resounding "YES" but we wont be able to believe it cause they are just lying anyways. ALL of the American agencies that deal with anything like this are corrupt and scandalous. THIS is where we need to clean up America.