The Numbers
A Run at the Latest Data from ABC's Poobah of Polling, Gary Langer
Gary Langer is director of polling at ABC News, where he's covered the beat of public opinion for more than 15 years – conducting and analyzing ABC News polls, evaluating data from other sources and setting the news division's standards for poll reporting. He's the first and only pollster to win a News Emmy, for his second national survey of public opinion in Iraq.
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« Follow the Lines | Main | Counting the Vote »
Obama and Working-Class Whites
May 13, 2008 12:42 PM
The anticipated outcome of today’s contest in West Virginia is prompting a fresh review of Barack Obama’s difficulties winning support from working-class white voters in this year’s Democratic primaries. One question: The extent to which it does or doesn’t predict problems for Obama if he’s the party’s nominee in November.
The effect, which we started reporting back in February, has been clear in the primaries: Whites who don’t have a college degree have voted for Hillary Clinton by a 2-1 margin, 62-31 percent, while those who’ve gone through college have divided evenly, 48-47 percent.
It seems that the effect stems in part from the thematic positioning of the two, with Clinton’s more nuts-and-bolts approach better attuned to the working class, Obama’s inspirational pitch for a new politics resounding better among more upscale Democrats. Obama’s been helped by the fact that better-educated voters are disproportionately likely to turn out – especially in primaries.
But primaries only tell us so much about general elections. In our latest ABC/Post poll, testing each of the Democrats against John McCain, there’s a shortfall among less-educated whites for both: McCain leads Obama by 12 points in this group, Clinton by 8.
Obama, with his upscale appeal, does better among better-educated whites: McCain’s just +3 vs. Obama, compared with McCain’s 12-point advantage against Clinton among college-educated whites. That accounts for Obama’s better showing against McCain overall, 51-44 percent in our poll, vs. 49-46 percent in a Clinton-McCain matchup.
Obama McCain Clinton McCain
Whites, no college 40% 52 44% 52
Whites, college grads 47 50 42 54
There are other potential impacts of race and socioeconomic status. As we noted in our poll analysis yesterday, 17 percent of less-educated whites say they’re at least somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of an African-American president; among better-educated whites that declines to 4 percent. As noted, there’s a similar effect on comfort with a woman president – and McCain’s age is a far bigger negative than either of these. Each of the candidates has room for some consciousness-raising on these concerns.
It’s also worth noting that the latte-vs.-lunch bucket effect has not been entirely consistent in all primaries this year. Obama won less-educated whites in the Vermont and Wisconsin primaries, was +2 in Utah and came within 4 points in his home state of Illinois (although in each he again did better with upscale whites).
It’s fair for the Obama camp to point out that he doesn’t do significantly worse against McCain among working-class whites than Clinton does, and that he does better with their upscale counterparts. And Obama’s numbers are nothing like John Kerry’s and Al Gore’s; they lost working-class whites to George W. Bush by 24 points and 17 points, respectively.
But working-class whites nonetheless are a group with which Obama might well like to improve. If he loses today’s primary, and next week’s in Kentucky, they’ll be the first place to look. And less-educated voters account for a greater share of the turnout in general elections than in primaries. While Obama could win a general election without them – just as he leads McCain today – it’s also true that the last Democrat to capture the White House, Bill Clinton, ran evenly among working-class whites as he did so.
May 13, 2008 | Permalink | User Comments (125)
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This makes no sense: are all blacks upscale blacks...why are they voting 93% Obama??? The fact is we will have another 4 years of Bush, when McCain wins in November!!!
Posted by: C. California | May 13, 2008 12:57:22 PM
Obama is an empty suit, created by the media with the help of the Chicago political machine. He is a weakling whose strings are manipulated by Teddy Kennedy, John Kerry-Heinz and Joe Biden. He is at their beck and call and is unable to make a decision without their help. An empty suit. Obama is further creating a cult which is being incited to hate the Clintons and John McCain. Along with the above three are Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi who are panting for obama to become nominated - further manipulation.
The Democratic party is split and I for one, will be glad to see it buried and never alive again.
I will vote for McCain if Hillary is not nominated and I will campaign that each of the above, when faced with their own re-election may not win. Obama is an unknown, has no leadership experience and is not qualified to become president. And Yeah - I am a middle-class white person.
Posted by: Lou | May 13, 2008 12:58:54 PM
I think the media is not looking at the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. I don't think that Obama has problems so much with white working class voters because he does WELL with this population in the North, West, and not too badly in the Mid-West.
However, when you look at the APALACHIA part of the United States which includes parts of Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Kentucky there IS a problem.
I think the problem is RACISM. Perhaps these white working class voters in this part of the U.S. would NEVER vote for a Black man no matter who he is.
I think it is time for the media to look at WHERE Obama has this problem (Apalachia, the South).
You will see that in Oregon, I predict that Obama will get a big chunk of the white working class vote for example. He doesn't have problems with the West.
Obama will have to choose a VP that will help him with these voters in these parts of the U.S.
Posted by: Stacey | May 13, 2008 1:02:31 PM
They don't want those typical bitter Americans in the New and Improved Progressive Democratic party anyway.
Posted by: Mack | May 13, 2008 1:06:11 PM
Obama is unfit to be president. No matter what class will or will not vote for him.
Posted by: Vickie | May 13, 2008 1:06:23 PM
OH come on. Face it. People of all colors aren't all racist or not racist. The simple fact of the matter is, regardless of who takes the oath of office in January, if your life sucks so much today that Obama or anyone else will make a big difference in it, you will be dissappointed once you realize you still have to live that life the day after the inauguration. Jeez. The only scary thing is that people actually believe anything a politician runnning for office says. "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help." Lalala lol
Posted by: Kitty | May 13, 2008 1:14:10 PM
These are racists comments:
From Dreams of My Father, “ I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE AND ANIMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER’S RACE”.
From ‘Dreams of My Father’, “I CEASED TO ADVERTISE MY MOTHER'S RACE AT ABOUT 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites”
And then this scary one:
From ‘The Audacity Of Hope, “I WILL STAND WITH THE MUSLIMS SHOULD THE POLITICAL WINDS OF WAR SHIFT IN AN UGLY DIRECTION..
Smiling face and stupid non-answers to pointed questions, answers like, "Oh, it's just more of the same old politics." are just a very small sample of why he should not be president. He doesn't give real answers because he has NONE. He is just a smiling face with a pat speech and the rest is hollow.
Posted by: Vickie | May 13, 2008 1:14:25 PM
Wow, Obama has difficulty with getting votes from uneducated white voters in WV and Kentucky?! How is that possible? I guess we just have to wait until things change...Maybe the situation will be different in say...year 2052?
Posted by: bewildered | May 13, 2008 1:15:28 PM
Obama has no problem with people on this class. Its them who have problem. How come that educated folk on that age are voting for him.
This is all about education. The more you are educated, the more you understand! Please stop blaming Obama on this. Its beyond his control.
Posted by: Peace | May 13, 2008 1:15:52 PM
Yes, we know, we know....he has trouble getting white voters.
But do we really wonder why? Or is the real reason right up under our collective noses...
Posted by: LA in Indiana | May 13, 2008 1:18:18 PM
Peace: Your comments are exactly right. It IS about education...followed closely by culture.
Posted by: dano | May 13, 2008 1:18:53 PM
@formerHillary-
You're wrong. It's blacks who turned their backs on the Clintons, not the other way around.
And Obama has a problem with less educated whites, not UNEDUCATED whites.
This language- typical for a snotty Obama supporter.
Posted by: IndependentPlease | May 13, 2008 1:20:41 PM
Well, considering the mess people seem to think we're in, AND considering most of the mess makers are well-educated, MAYBE it's time for the "really smart, educated" people to rethink things. Some people have book smarts. Some have life smarts. If the fear mongers are correct and we need Obama to save us from whatever this horrible thing we're heading into happens, I'll make my way to WV where people actually know how to grow food and sustain themselves.
Posted by: Kitty | May 13, 2008 1:21:55 PM
Vickie...if you're going to quote material, you should quote the text and show references to include PAGE NUMBERS and you should quote material IN context and not OUT of context. Otherwise, you're just as guilty as those who desire to maintain various levels of racism.
Posted by: JustMyObservation | May 13, 2008 1:23:55 PM
So, 90% of blacks voting for the black nominee is not racist? Why is that?
Posted by: MOMO | May 13, 2008 1:25:05 PM
Typical elitist babble. If you don't support Obama then you must be a uneducated racist. So much for the support for the proletariat.
Posted by: Mack | May 13, 2008 1:26:25 PM
Yeah I heard about all those educated people voting for Obama because they thought he was cute or it was the cool thing to do. Well I am a college educated white and I don't care if he is as cute as a newborn baby or as ugly as and old mutt dog. I don't care if he is white, black or purple polka dotted It is all about his Abilities! and he has NONE NONE NONE other then talking and smiling...and those are his positive ones. I will not take the time to restate the many many negatives
Posted by: Vickie | May 13, 2008 1:31:16 PM
Why does Hillary have such a major problem with Black voters? If she were nominated today she would lose to McCain because of this - Blacks will not forget how she has played the race card and continues to play the race card everywhere she goes - White white white - VOTE HILLARY VOTE WHITE - In any case lets all rejoice she is still in the race wasting more of her cash and going into major debt - Good riddance.
Posted by: daisy | May 13, 2008 1:31:17 PM
C. California, 93% isn't bad, huh?!
And we go the full range in education. Apparently we are able to reach back and bring most of our 'less educated' along with the progression.
Its almost like being a soldier...we do our best with leaving no man behind on the information highway.
In our neighborhoods, our families, and even in our church communities, we try to educate those that don't have access to resources to remain fully engaged in the political process. So that may account for the large percentage.
So it seems, that ain't happnin' in good ole Appalachia.
Signed,
Middlescale black
Posted by: LA in Indiana | May 13, 2008 1:34:00 PM
Maybe to working class whites, the idea of a rookie senator thinking he can solve the world's problems comes across as extremely arrogant.
Working class people have real problems that effect their daily lives and they want to hear real solutions and plans, and that's what Senator Clinton delivers.
Posted by: Jackson | May 13, 2008 1:35:11 PM
The best thing you can do for any human being is to teach them to fish. You don't give them a fish so they can eat for a day. You teach them to fish so they can eat for a lifetime. Teaching black children that white people are in control of their lives is child abuse, and if you are guilty of it, S-T-O-P it.
Posted by: Kitty | May 13, 2008 1:37:52 PM
I don't understand this argument about Obama not being able to pull the working class white vote --- the vast majority of the working class is WHITE! If Obama can't attract that particular group of voters, then somebody PLEASE explain to me how the hell he's ahead of Hillary Clinton!!! Black people only make up 10-12% of the total population.... he will NOT win the White House without the "working-class white vote." Just like Hillary will NOT win without black votes.... this fighting among democrats MUST stop if the old fart John McCain is to be sent back to his rocking chair in November!
Posted by: stop the madness | May 13, 2008 1:38:50 PM
What about the blacks just voting for BHO because he is black regardless if they are educated or not. BHO does nothing to endear himself to the middle class white. He seems to think he is hip with them by playing a game of pool or bowling and drinking beer. Unfortunately for him the uneducated are just not that dumb.
Posted by: rockthebleachers | May 13, 2008 1:39:01 PM
Obama does well with College educated whites because he sounds like a professor and reminds them of college days. ha ha ha
Posted by: justme2see | May 13, 2008 1:39:25 PM
Not surprised that Obama has trouble getting uneducated (not less educated) white voters in KY and WV to vote for him , afterall most people (not all) out there are so far removed from the real world.. Maybe someone should tell them that America is a country of many races and colors and that the white race (of which I am one) will soon be minority. That realy pleases me , because maybe one day we will not have a "STUPID WHITE MAN " running this country .
hvdk
Posted by: hvdk54 | May 13, 2008 1:39:54 PM
Thank God everyone only gets one vote.
Posted by: Kitty | May 13, 2008 1:42:37 PM
i am southern, white, educated (i teach on both the high school and college levels) and i earn more than $50,000; a yellow dog democrat, i cannot relate to obama; his church's theology is antiwhite; his wife's comments are nothing i want to hear from a potential first lady; his association with 1960s terrorists is problematic; he is not small town america; he is not the silent majority that elected Nixon nor the blue dog democrats that elected Reagan. count my words, most of us in middle america will have no choice but to vote for McCain.
Posted by: ron | May 13, 2008 1:43:57 PM
I need to express this because I find what so many Obama supporters state to be patently offensive and insulting in the extreme. So many of you feel "whites" in WV and KY are uneducated, racist and thus should be thrown away because, as one poster here says, "Working class whites? How polite. This term refers to uneducated Americans who could not even point out the capital of Canada. Racism runts rampant in this group. Is it any surprise that they refuse to vote for a man of mixed race? Are THESE the people the nation should defer to when considering ANYTHING of national importance? Please." THIS is the reason I am learning to despise the Democratic party and all it no longer stands for. To be clear, I am YOUNG, BIRACIAL, HAVE TWO POST-GRAD DEGREES AND MAKE MORE THAN 50k and yes I do drink lattes. HOWEVER, I would not ever demean an entire state, or two, with this type of sweeping generalization. Let us not forget that the "latte liberals" who post here seem to be clinging to their belief in their own form of clinging to their religion aka "If you don't think as we do you're racist, uneducated, fill in the blank with the appropriate insult." I'd like to ask any of these posters if you've been to WV and KY and interviewed a majority of its populace. As far as KY being a bastion for racisom, it is obvious this poster makes no mention of the ATL and the Humana Festival for the Arts, one of the most prestigious artistic venues, and events, in this country. I think, and this is my own opinion, that the very categorization of "uneducated whites" or "blacks" is a facile reduction of an entire group of people. You are assuming a normative "Uneducated working class white" and how insulting is it to use the contrast latte vs lunch pail. Why don't you stick a hayseed in the white guy's mouth and have him say his sister is his mother?! I wonder how these people would react if we had an "uneducated black worker" category, which seems to be missing, and rightly so, for categories, while perhaps interesting when attempting to read a crystal ball, are offensive in that they create an amorphous stereotype in which people lock others away and dispose of them and devalue them. IF Obama were such a uniter, I would have expected him to lash out against this type of rhetoric. He hasn't said a word. This leads me to believe that he himself gobbles up these stereotypes. Since when is it a crime to be "working class?" Since so many Democrats like Huffington, who married a gay man and divorced him for his money btw, says it is. And it is mainly from what I perceive as a loss of control over "the other" as Obama said in his San Francisco speech. The Democratic party is neither. When Obama won Iowa, state one, Clinton was told to step down, that it was over, and it's been ongoing. Suppose the same had been said about Obama when she was leading? We'd be branded racists and our lattes would be served luke warm under the glares of our once peers. The Dem party is filled with hypocrites, and I, for one, find it a huge relief to leave this "party." Will I return? With Dean, Pelosi, Kennedy, Richardson in power, I doubt it. The "old boy" network and caustic arrogant members who support them (the negative anti0WV and KY posters for example) have given me the choice to walk away or be a part of the exclusionaly and elitist Obama Express. I choose the former, and odd -- I did like the Obama Express in the very beginning. I'm no longer under his spell, and I am DemNoMore.
Posted by: DemNoMore | May 13, 2008 1:47:13 PM
Good Post Vickie...........Maybe if he told us stupid white folks what he was going to do to make this country better we would vote for him.
Posted by: Barb | May 13, 2008 1:47:13 PM
Obama is all puff and no substance. He's scary as there are too many hidden issues with this politician. I'm voting for anyone but Obama.
Master's Educated Asian Woman
Posted by: darsaw | May 13, 2008 1:48:46 PM
White, less educated voters do not buy Obama's load of crap. He is not sincere or respectful when he talks of this demographic. That can't be denied. He has done nothing to make himself seem like he would be a president that would work hard on behalf of them, for their issues.
That is why he can't win their vote.
Posted by: Eugene | May 13, 2008 1:51:02 PM
Excellent post, DemNoMore!!
Posted by: AC_83 | May 13, 2008 1:52:05 PM
So 90% of the black vote for Bill Clinton is because he's such a great guy. But when it's for Obama it's because they're all racist. Right.
Posted by: kay kay | May 13, 2008 1:54:12 PM
Like Ray Nagin wasn't going to back BHO. Remember he likes chocolate.
Posted by: rockthebleachers | May 13, 2008 1:56:23 PM
How anyone can honestly believe Obama is a change from the same old political games is beyond me. He said his association with Rezko was a 'dumb' decision, that he didn't know Wright was a rascist, that he wasn't putting down small town workers, that he wants a bipartisan administration.He was voted "Most Liberal Senator" title last year, he wants gun controls, made a deal with Rezko even while knowing Rezko was under investigation for corruption,lied about not knowing Wright's agenda, and told a liberal San Francisco audience what they wanted to hear about rural 'hicks'. He told Judicial Watch he had no records from his term in the Illinois legislature and is using a Madison Avenue slogan 'Change We Can believe In' to try to get in the White House. He comes from a wealthy Hawaiian family even though he tries to portray himself as one of the downtrodden. 100 years ago he would have been called a snake oil salesman.
Posted by: hvdk54 | May 13, 2008 1:57:32 PM
In case you haven't noticed, millions of people are not voting for Obama. It might seem like a laughing matter if Hillary were not running a very close second. But to laugh over 4 S/Ds when Hillary has approximately half the vote needed for your candidate to win is soooooooooo childish. Foolish, too. Your candidate needs those people to vote for him. You'd better hope all your laughing doesn't create a REVENGE VOTE FOR MCCAIN.
Posted by: Kitty | May 13, 2008 1:59:53 PM
I'm not worried about a white DEM in office. I'm worried about a DEM in office. lol
Posted by: Kitty | May 13, 2008 2:04:37 PM
Dukakis LOST 45 states in '88.
Obama will lose even more.
Disaster for the democrats in
november.They may lose the house and the senate.
Dean,Pelosi,Kennedy,Kerry,and the rest
of the group betting on a dead horse.
I'm white middle class educated and i will never vote for Obama.
Posted by: Nicholas | May 13, 2008 2:07:50 PM
Believe it or not, there are people who will NOT vote for Obama because he is a Democrat. Well, that and his America-hating wife. Oh, and his pastor does ruffle some feathers. And the siding with the muslim thing he wrote about in his book. And ... well, you know the rest of the stuff that has to do with his being a DEM. That's the way they roll ya know?
Posted by: Kitty | May 13, 2008 2:08:23 PM
WHEN ASKED
Which should be more important in choosing a party's nominee for president?
Delegate count OR Popular vote - 80% Said Popular vote
And
Obama and his supporters said the Superdelegates should not go against the WILL OF THE PEOPLE well the popular vote is the WILL OF THE PEOPLE
Posted by: truth | May 13, 2008 2:09:06 PM
Attention Delegates/Super-Delegates; Hillary's campaign stands for everything the DNC should be and suppose to have been against! Hillary and Bill have shown their ugly side during this race.They have used Republican style Tactics.They have shown their Tactics hold No Bounds.Mich. and Florida's delegates was voted to be taken out even by Hillary.Now that she thinks bringing this delegates back in to help her, is nothing short of Third World Voting! If the DNC wants to hold a meeting it should be to Boot her from the Democratic Party!
Posted by: Demo Rules | May 13, 2008 2:09:51 PM
Some excellent posts here. DemNoMore...excellent!!
Posted by: justme2see | May 13, 2008 2:11:02 PM
I rest my case.
Posted by: Kitty | May 13, 2008 2:11:37 PM
DemNoMore - Your post speaks for me, as well. Too bad the DNC insiders just don't get it.
Posted by: mhhunt | May 13, 2008 2:15:06 PM
Obama supporters - avoid the temptation to take the easy road and actually think! I have for your sake someone on the Obama side is, otherwise kiss GE away ---
1> "less educated" means no college degree, doesn't indicate anything about actual knowledge, work experience, or training (ex., military). Until Bill Gates got an honorary degree from Harvard in 2007, he would have counted as "uneducated"
2> stop implying that HRC supporters are uneducated. Both Obama and HRC have supporters in both groups - almost 50/50 split among educated voters, 60-40 among less educated.
3> stop calling everyone a racist for not believing in Obama. Fact is Obama does well in states where black population is high, or where it's low -- i.e, racial identity isn't an issue in most peoples lives.
Where the population is mixed, Obama does worse - instead of racism, look to focus on the so-called "lunch bucket" issues/values -economy, experience, persistence, patriotism, etc. Then add in the fact that the Wright issue really does bother people - both b/c of Wright's views and b/c Obama supported his church for 20 yrs without "knowing" what his pastor stood for? Throw in flag pins, pledge of allegiance, arugula, "proud for the first time", "mean America" ... it all starts to go against him.
Posted by: Clark | May 13, 2008 2:18:14 PM
Will the real Obama please stand up!
seems he re-invents himself for each group he try to win votes off of.
I do not understand how so many can't see what a fake he truly is.
He did promise to do anything to become president. Lying, cheating, misleading, redefining himself and being a phony, blaming everyone else for everything, never taking responsibility and owning up to anything he ever did.
Between Lies and fancy speeches I do not know which he has more of.
What a scam he has run on America and the votes have fallen for it. Shame is they will never regain the country from a scam artist.
Posted by: seah | May 13, 2008 2:20:31 PM
Hey Obama supporters...do not, I repeat, do NOT accuse "working class" Americans of being racist. These Americans are the heart and soul of this country, work hard, support their families, and are patriotic. If you are going to talk about racism, then kindly explain the 91% black vote for Obama. So black voters are allowed to vote for whom they please? Correct. And white voters are allowed to do the same. Racism is racism, if it's wrong for one group to vote based on race, then it's wrong all around. If it is fair for black voters to vote in huge majority for the black candidate, then you have condoned white voters voting for their white candidate. Superdelegates, are you listening? There is no way Obama will win the General. So, the question to ask is, how much do you want the Dems to win back the white house?
Posted by: doublestandard | May 13, 2008 2:26:38 PM
Didnt McGovern have the same coalition that obama has upperclass, students, AA.
How did that work out?
George "who lost 49 states" McGovern
Posted by: toby | May 13, 2008 2:28:57 PM
One thing you said struck me....you said "Obama supported his church"...and that is exactly what he did, its what we all do.
The church has always been, and will always be, MORE than its pastor.
Obama said he knew his pastor was controversial....he also said he was not in the pews for the specific 30 second loops played on the news. (and trust me, sean hannity looked)
People have taken his comments out of context, and they have twisted and distorted his responses (just like Boehner did with Israel).
And you know what....people continue to distort and twist everything he says. So in the last 4 months, the hillary supporters describe the Illinois Senator as a liar, a bigot, a racist. You twist Michelle's words, and distort her responses.
lol all while you support hillary with her blatant lies and distortions. I see the double standard applied here....she's white, so it's alright.
Status Quo...that's how it's always been, so who wants to change that?
Posted by: LA in Indiana | May 13, 2008 2:31:45 PM
Dano, relax. There are other demographics that do not support Obama -- Latinos, women, older folks, poor people generally....and even black people. It's not always racism. Stop believing the story the media force-feeds us.
Posted by: tony | May 13, 2008 2:34:42 PM
And doublestandards post proves my point!
You either vote for the white woman or we'll make sure the black guy doesn't win.
LOL
~back to life...
~back to reality...
Posted by: LA in Indiana | May 13, 2008 2:35:25 PM
^5 Frosted, speak the truth!
Most of them really don't want to get it, they're just here to stir up more crap.
Posted by: LA in Indiana | May 13, 2008 2:43:12 PM
OBAMA is ahead in the delegate count because he CONCENTRATED on winning in CAUCUS states that historically VOTE for the republican.
Take Texas for example, a state which had both a primary and a caucus. Obama lost the primary by a large margin to Hillary but overwhelmingly won the caucus USING ACTIVISTS! In the end, he walked away with more delegates than the WOMAN who WON the popular vote! Anybody else think there's something very flawed with that?
Believe me folks, Obama's brilliant strategy might work great to win this nomination process but it will NOT translate into a victory in the GE! And that 90% black vote will that pushed him to narrow victories in many states will be diluted BACK to the 9% of general population that it represents in the GE as opposed to the 20%+ that it represents in the primaries.
Posted by: Linda | May 13, 2008 2:44:06 PM
I got both of Obama's books from the library and read them before I decided
that he was the real deal.
I read one of Hillary's too.
Have any others here read them?
Posted by: Bill in NC | May 13, 2008 2:45:01 PM
DemNoMore, I'm with you. I've changed my registration from democrat to independent. I will not vote for Obama because he has shown he lacks the experience and judgment to deal with dangers such as a nuclear Iran. I was impressed with him initially but then saw the emptiness of his rhetoric of hope and change. In a year when it would appear impossible for the democrats to lose they are nominating someone who will be highly polarizing. All his talk of uniting the country is silly because he has no record of bipartisan outreach. He has no legislative accomplishments.
Posted by: Barbara | May 13, 2008 2:46:10 PM
To comment about LA in Indiana -- this is a perfect reason the Dem party is over for me. You accuse the poster of holding a double-standard, yet you then feel it is your right to say, "she's white, so it's alright." Are you a mindreader? Are you this poster? The poster may or may not have a double-standard, and if you believe he or she does, fine. But keep it at that. You do not know the person is saying these things about Obama only because Clinton is white. It is once again the demeaning assumptions I'm seeing in this devolving "party" that has me leaving it. To quote, and alter for my own sake, Michelle Obama: "The Democratic party (or many in it) is a mean party." Think about that LA in Indiana, and any others, who rush to shove race, or any other demeaning and highly charged term, down our throats in order to demonize, and toss away, another person's opinions because we don't share them. In other words, if we cannot know for certain that someone is a racist, don't say it. To do so makes us worse than the alleged "racist."
Posted by: DemNoMore | May 13, 2008 2:46:25 PM
Demnomore,
Just like you have the ability to choose your candidate, so do I. I have discovered that most "black comments" are an issue here. And yes, I respond to their words, not their actions because I don't know anything more than what they tell me on this board.
Yes Bill, I have read the Audacity of Hope. I didn't start supporting Obama until after wild bill made his blatant remark in SC....THEN I read the book.
That was the change for me.
Posted by: LA in Indiana | May 13, 2008 2:56:22 PM
stages for Obama campaign
Before Rezko
After Rezko
Before Rev. Wright
After Rev Wright
Before Hamas
After Hamas
The more we know the more unelectable he is.
Posted by: libre | May 13, 2008 2:58:49 PM
obama4pr The African American voters repreent only 27% is less than the 32% Hispanic vote and much less than the more than 40% white worker votes
Posted by: libre | May 13, 2008 3:05:24 PM
Gary are you saying that dumb people voted for Hillary and smart people voted for Obama? You know what they say about book smart people?
Posted by: slokipoki | May 13, 2008 3:07:26 PM
JV what you think "should" be it is not what it counts. what it is, is that Obama is unelectable.
Posted by: libre | May 13, 2008 3:07:51 PM
fraud in NC???
==that was a real knee slapper==
was there fraud here in Indiana too???
you guys are just too funny!
Posted by: LA in Indiana | May 13, 2008 3:12:11 PM
LA,
I liked Dreams From My Father better and it was only after reading that second book that I really warmed to him.
The Hillary book I couldn't get all the way through, too much bragging and some stuff even I knew wasn't true.
I got one of the McCain books, they are ghost written you know.
Posted by: Bill in NC | May 13, 2008 3:13:35 PM
LA in Indiana -
The fact that I -- a non-white well-educated moderate democrat --- sound like Sean Hannity, hints at the dimensions of this campaign. My views are more centrist than Obama supporters, and my value system places higher significance on experience/know-how than on promises. How does that fit w/a vote for Obama? -- right now, it doesn't.
I judge people by both my standards and the standards they set for themselves ... and on this last, Obama, his wife, and their campaign fall short:
+ Obama says he's above race, but his campaign denigrates people as racist (or hostile to people not like them) for not supporting him.
+ At the same time Obama calls media attention to the "attacks" on him, I see him/his campaign doing the same and more.
+ I care less about specifics about what Wright says, then the fact that Obama wants to pretend he was oblivious to the PHILOSOPHIES Wright espoused until this past month? None of what Wright said @ the press club was new -- none of it -- and this is what has defined much of who he is/his actions. The fact that Obama says "this isn't the man I thought I knew" suggests either a willful ignorance or a political "throw another one under the bus" that I cannot tolerate in a president.
+ I'm not twisting Michelle's words. Communication is a two-way street - speaker / listener - so you cannot discount how comments are interpreted by saying the listener is wrong. For some people what she said might be truth, for others it comes across as unappropriate for a 1st Lady.
Bottom line is current data doesn't support an Obama win in Nov unless he can win the white, working class vote. He (and his supporters) can go around yelling "Racist!" all they like - and probably lose --- or they can try to understand the dynamics shaping the vote decision and try to impact them.
Posted by: Clark | May 13, 2008 3:17:12 PM
Obama is the radical not African Americans, Radicals are of all races. there is no point in always trying to make appear that any criticism of Obama has to do with race. Is about his judgment, lack of knowledge and experience, his radical views and ties.
Posted by: libre | May 13, 2008 3:28:56 PM
The content of BHO character is not appealing to all.
Posted by: T | May 13, 2008 3:31:54 PM
Terry of the all Obama's base, no more than 12% have a more than a High school diploma, when you read the numbers you need to understand them.
Posted by: libre | May 13, 2008 3:33:51 PM
i still find it humerous why whites that wont vote obama, white dems, why we are racist or why we dont like people of color...did you ever think that we may see major character flaws in obama? the fact that he has major racist ties and is married to a very racist woman? couldnt that be it? possibly?
Posted by: ryan | May 13, 2008 3:40:58 PM
define "large" number of whites that you say do not get that all men are created equal. You can then refer me to the valid source where you get your information.
You are full of rhetoric just like your man Obama. And for the record...I AM judging on the basis of character...McCain has it and Obama does not. It is as simple as that.
Posted by: Raleigh Voter | May 13, 2008 3:48:23 PM
The major damage that Obama has done to the party and the country is make African Americans believe that this is about Blacks versus Whites. The reality is that this is about Obama being unfit to be president and unfit to represent the true Democrats in the General Election
Posted by: libre | May 13, 2008 3:49:19 PM
i am a gay white male that grew up on a farm in tn..so i know something about descrimination, yeah...Yeah, ive been denied a job because the company needed to hire a minority to fill a quota, even tho i was more qualified and had more experience..so yeah, i know something about descrimination...I have friends that live in an all black neighborhood..and yeah, they yell racial slurs at me so yeah, ive heard it...what now? respond? so what you are saying is its ok for blacks to be racist..that is what it sounds like
Posted by: ryan | May 13, 2008 3:54:29 PM
So...those Dems and Independents who choose to vote for McCain versus Obama have always "felt like if you white its all right if you are black get back"?
Who are the ones showing their true colors here and their lack of judgment, or should I say who are the ones showing their ability to prejudge?
What nonsense and what lack of character you have to make such a broad and biased statement like that.
Posted by: Raleigh Voter | May 13, 2008 4:00:37 PM
JV, why are you blaming whites for the problems of the nation?
Posted by: ryan | May 13, 2008 4:01:06 PM
ELECTABILITY IS THE ISSUE.
===========================
Obama's electability in november is
ZERO.
Dukakis lost 45 states.
Obama will lose even more.
November will be the end of the democratic party as we know it,if
Obama gets the nomination.
Posted by: Nicholas | May 13, 2008 4:02:48 PM
The Clinton's have No Clothes on...
We know the true meanings of code words such as "Electability" and "Hard-working whites".
Racism has been drilled into the very core of certain groups of Americans and politicians like the Clintons have historically use it to their advantage.
Forty years ago (Tet 1968) I ran over 100 yards under fire through the jungle of Vietnam with a wounded "White" soldier on my back. Weeks later I was given a letter written to our company commander by the parents of that "White" soldier wanting to know why a "Colored Boy" would save their son's life? They just did not get it.
The answer to the parents was simple; I did not save their son and I am certain that their son would not have saved my life. I saved my Brother in Arms who would have risk his life to save mines.
If only we could put the brotherly-love that emerges among soldiers on the battle field into a pill to be distributed to all... America would be a better place.
Posted by: Frank | May 13, 2008 4:07:30 PM
Hello Raleigh Voter,
Understand what I said if that is who you want to vote for fine quit crying about it and crying about color. The bottom line is if you are a Believer we will make it no matter what the state of the world is in. I meant the good ol boys always have felt if you are white you are all right and if you are black get back. If you are not one of the them then you really have nothing to say! Let's forget about this whole race thing and pull this country together as One nation under God. No matter who leads this country if you and I do our best to stop racism as we know it in this country it will be a better place!
Posted by: Frosted In Illinois | May 13, 2008 4:09:24 PM
My number one reason for not voting for Obama is because of his racist wife. She is the most unhappy and ungreatful millionaire that I have ever seen. I feel sorry for her.
Posted by: Gladys | May 13, 2008 4:12:13 PM
my domestic partner is black..i have no problem with black people..i have problems with the ghetto people..whether black or white....i have problem with obamas "former" spiritual advisor and have a problem with the hateful things his wife has been recorded in saying and writing
Posted by: ryan | May 13, 2008 4:12:45 PM
Magicians know that the more educated the audience, the easier it is to fool them. That is because the educated participate in the act and fall for the misdirection designed for them. Obama is a master magician and the educated elites love him.
Posted by: Jake, Cali | May 13, 2008 4:15:44 PM
I don't think Michelle Obama is really so angry but really has low self-esteem. Sometimes people who do not think highly of themselves come across as angry. When she says "they" keep raising the bar it shows that she has the typical victim mentality of a person with low self-esteem.
Posted by: gte56 | May 13, 2008 4:18:17 PM
"POTUS is not a job where a learning curve is not to tolerated."
Ooops, one to many nots. What I wanted to say is "POTUS is not a job where a learning curve is to be tolerated."
Posted by: JBedford70 | May 13, 2008 4:24:47 PM
Blacks had been voting for Obama in large ##'s strictly because he is black. I know educated blacks know as well as other people that Obama is not qualified to be president, no substance.That does'nt make black racists right?? when a w