The Numbers
A Run at the Latest Data from ABC's Poobah of Polling, Gary Langer
Gary Langer is director of polling at ABC News, where he's covered the beat of public opinion for nearly 20 years - conducting and analyzing ABC News polls, evaluating data from other sources and setting the news division's standards for poll reporting. Langer has won two Emmy awards for ABC's reporting of public opinion polls in Iraq, and The Numbers blog was honored this year as winner of the 2008 Iowa Gallup Award for Excellent Journalism Using Polls.
ARCHIVES
SUBJECT INDEX
RECENT POSTS
- In Afghanistan Decision, Risks Abound
- Views on the Terror Trials
- Sarah Palin: Rogue for President?
- Chasing Feathers
- Tomorrow's Elections: An Obama Referendum?
- Schwarzenegger's Nastygram: One in 10 Billion?
- Executive Pay? Cut Away
- Pols, Polls and Pushback
- On Nuclear Iran, Diplomacy and Sanctions are Preferred to Hostilities
- Polling, Politics and Nobels
MONTHLY ARCHIVES
« Previous | Main | Next »
Obama, Cheney and the Politics of Torture
April 23, 2009 10:16 AM
Dick Cheney’s pushback on torture this week is well-calibrated: It’s an issue on which public sentiment is somewhat more equivocal than President Obama’s own view. While most people oppose torture, that view is short of monolithic – and opposition softens if it’s presumed actually to work, as the former vice president argues.
This has been the case for years: Ask people if they support or oppose the use of torture, a straight up or down question, and majorities oppose it. But ask it with gradations and opposition is lower. And attach a direct positive attribute – possibly saving lives, or even definitely saving them – and opposition goes lower still.
Whether that kind of positive result can be demonstrated of course is highly debated. What’s clear is that the argument does resonate with some people who otherwise oppose the practice – data that illustrate the aim of Cheney’s approach.
Much focus the past week has been on waterboarding. In the latest specific data, a CNN poll in November 2007, 69 percent called it torture; fewer but still most, 58 percent, said the U.S. government should not allow it. Forty percent said it should be allowed.
Quite similarly, in an ABC/Post poll we did this January, 58 percent favored Obama’s position prohibiting the use of torture under any circumstances – while 40 percent again said there are cases in which it should be considered. We saw a big gender gap – women ruled torture out by 2-1; men divided evenly – and very big partisan and ideological splits. At the extremes, 77 percent of liberal Democrats rejected torture, while 60 percent of conservative Republicans said it should be considered in some cases.
There also have been differences of opinion by type of coercion. In a poll we did back in 2004, Americans by 78-21 percent said holding a terrorism suspect’s head under water was unacceptable, but by 66-33 percent the public saw sleep deprivation as acceptable. (Of a dozen items we tested, three were seen by majorities as acceptable – sleep deprivation; hooding, 57 percent; and noise bombing, 54 percent.)
Also prominently on the political plate now is whether the Obama administration should investigate whether any laws were broken in the Bush administration’s treatment of terrorism suspects. When we asked in January, the public split by 50-47 percent, with the expected partisan divisions: Democrats 69-30 percent, Republicans, 27-69 percent. (Independents divided, 45-53 percent.)
A review of questions on torture underscores the workings of what survey researchers call positive-attribute bias – how attaching a good outcome produces a different result. Back in 2005 we found 64 percent calling torture “unacceptable” as part of the U.S. campaign against terrorism, and in January, as noted, we found 58 percent support for Obama’s position not to use it regardless of the circumstance. But also in January, a Fox News poll found less opposition – 48 percent – when it asked about torture “that might protect the United States from terrorist attacks.” And Pew in February 2008 had just 30 percent calling torture “never justified” (as opposed to often, sometimes or rarely) when done “in order to gain important information” – a steady number in its polling since 2004.
Indeed in a November 2005 Newsweek poll, 58 percent supported torture “if it might lead to the prevention of a major terrorist attack.” And Fox, in 2002, got support at 52 percent – perhaps lower than you might expect, given the emotive language it used: “If innocent lives could be saved.”
Given the range of responses, there are political considerations on both sides of the debate. In the eyes of some Obama may gain stature for taking a stand they see as principled and moral; others, though, could see it as a “too liberal” position, perhaps calling into question the president’s credentials to counter terrorism effectively or even to serve his commander-in-chief function.
In the dispute with Cheney, however, Obama does have some clear advantages: After all, when Cheney left office three months ago, only 30 percent of Americans approved of the way he’d handled his job the previous eight years. Obama’s rating in most recent polls has been more than twice as high.
April 23, 2009 in National Security/Terrorism, President Obama | Permalink | User Comments (34)
You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.
No question that it's hurting Republicans to be so closely associated with Cheney in the torture fight. And besides their distaste for Darth, Americans also are firmly opposed to the techniques he and the GOP are defending.
Posted by: matt | Apr 23, 2009 10:48:20 AM
hardly, i think Americans are backing off obama and him going after the GOP. This is going to backfire on him in a big way. He cares more about terrorists than he does about Americans. Typical Obama hating America and prosecuting those who did everything they could to make sure American wasn't hit again. Obama is a moron.
Posted by: chad | Apr 23, 2009 10:55:08 AM
IF "TORTURE" is going to be discussed, the first step is to define what torture is. I think we could all agree that what the Nazis did: Pulling fingernails out, gouging out eyes, etc. is real torture. When we're talking "waterboarding", a procedure used on many of America's own Special Forces people as a training exercise, only the looniest of leftists aiming to damage our own anti-terrorist interrogation techniques in order to put America in danger, would claim that that is torture.
Posted by: Ron | Apr 23, 2009 11:40:11 AM
"hardly, i think Americans are backing off obama and him going after the GOP. This is going to backfire on him in a big way. He cares more about terrorists than he does about Americans."
AN EXAMPLE OF MINDLESS UN-AMERICAN HATE
were were hit 9/11 on Bush watch ignoring information from previous administration. Obama released torture information under law and specifically does not want prosecutions. the attorney general Eric Holder(separate from the white house)is reviewing the law. unlike Gonzales who acted as personal attorney for Bush.
Posted by: chads dad | Apr 23, 2009 11:54:44 AM
IF "TORTURE" is going to be discussed, the first step is to define what torture is. I think we could all agree that what the Nazis did: Pulling fingernails out, gouging out eyes, etc. is real torture. When we're talking "waterboarding", a procedure used on many of America's own Special Forces people as a training exercise, only the looniest of leftists aiming to damage our own anti-terrorist interrogation techniques in order to put America in danger, would claim that that is torture.
Posted by: Ron | Apr 23, 2009 12:00:45 PM
Ron,
First off your defense that waterboarding is not torture because we do it to train troops is patently false, namely because those training exercises (SERE as the military calls them) are exercises for troops TO WITHSTAND TORTURE. Because it is a torture technique that was used by enemy soldiers in Vietname and the Korean War to elicit *false* confessions from captured US troops in the past. The enemy then used false confessions as propaganda. Torture has been used since the middle ages for exactly this purpose of getting false confessions because tortured people have said anything to get things to stop even if it isn't true, even if admitting to something results in their death. If interrogators don't hear what they want to hear they keep going until they do, even if it has no basis in facts. This makes torture not any more reliable than other alternative and much more moral techniques, techniques that the FBI successfully used after the first WTC bombings in 1993 to get information. Defense of torture is depending upon its effectiveness, which many experts have questioned. At best case torture gives short term info gain, but long term alienates our allies, and gives propaganda to help terrorist organizations recruit new members to fight our troops and attack us. That is a long term strategic loss. Not to mention it is against the law of our constitution and the treaties we have signed.
Posted by: Ordermonger | Apr 23, 2009 12:30:57 PM
Ron, the difference between giving a US soldier a simulated training and the technique being used on an a subject to extract information is that there are "safe words" and the US soldier can stop the simulation at any time. the soldier knows he/she is being trained. thus this training does not lead to psychological trauma since the soldier knows it will happen once, knows that it is for training and is aware he or she has the power to stop it at any time during the training.
the purpose of the training is that this method is torture and soldiers may be exposed to it if captured.
the subject in waterboarding (whether at Guantanamo Bay or through extraordinary rendition) has no idea of when/if the torture will stop, or even if he/she will survive.
there is a substantial risk of laryngospasm during this practice, which is often fatal. the number of fatalities the US CIA has caused is unknown as it is state secret.
you may be interested to know waterboarding was used by the NAZIs, the Japanese in WWII, and the Khmer Rouge. all of these regimes used waterboarding as torture.
detainees are not being trained they are being tortured.
Posted by: Paul Wall | Apr 23, 2009 12:35:44 PM
Republicans are a disgrace. Anyone who supports them or are associated with them are just the same!!
Posted by: Al | Apr 23, 2009 12:41:45 PM
Al, i strongly disagree with you. i do not think republicans are a disgrace. i disagree with some republicans, sometimes strongly. but i believe that they have convictions and are sincere. disagreements are always going to happen. but i think republicans love their country as much as democrats do. the worst thing we can do is dehumanize those we disagree with. think of what blogs would be like if no one from the other party contributed. people with different views and visions challenge us to think---to strengthen our convictions or to question them.
Posted by: Paul Wall | Apr 23, 2009 12:52:08 PM
Al, I am pleased to see a person with an open mind on this posting. Your hatred for Bush has allowed your mind to go of half cocked. I am not stupid but rather a realist. I have said before that all of the American public will be screaming for harsh interrogation(called torture by some) when the next building is attacked, ship attacked or American citizens harmed. Always with you in the Democratic party.
Posted by: William | Apr 23, 2009 12:57:30 PM
Richard Cheney is a paranoid sociopath twho truly did not give a damn about a) the people of this country; b) our military; or c) the law. He only cared about his secret agenda and finally being able to force the notion of imperial presidency, something he tried with the Nixon White House and then with the Bush White House. Both attempts were stunning failures on an epic scale, the last being the most damaging to this country. I truly believe this man should be tried for his corruption and sent to prison.
Posted by: DaveM | Apr 23, 2009 1:17:39 PM
BREAKING NEWS:::: Democrats now scrambling for cover as documents released show ALL of them were briefed often and entirely on techinques used as early as 2002
Republicians want ALL briefing documents released as Democrats now Stonewall
Posted by: Breaking News | Apr 23, 2009 1:19:12 PM
Breaking News::::, great let's see the documents. i'm not seeing the story on any of the main media outlets. where is your newsflash coming from. a reputable source i take it?
Posted by: Paul Wall | Apr 23, 2009 1:34:07 PM
Torture is wrong, and sick and America is a better that or at least we were until Bush got in office. Bush and Cheney are war criminals and should be prosecuted.
If you believe in torture, you do not believe in democracy. Torturing is wrong, and does damage to those societies whose authorities practice it. Eventually they use it on their own citizens.
Posted by: Wearebetterthanthat | Apr 23, 2009 9:53:26 PM
Either way the republicans are in a no win situation. They will ALWAYS be associated with Cheney, Bush, and torture.
There is no way this party will win any election for at least the next 8 years. More like 20.
Say goodnight GOP........it's over.
Posted by: Daniel | Apr 24, 2009 7:51:54 AM
As a liberal, I have trouble reconciling some of the principles of the Republican Party. Torture is fine but abortion is not. Free, unfettered capitalism (with no government involvement) is good but not for Somali pirates. Rugged individualism is prized but GOP congressmen should always vote "no" in a block. Tax cuts are the only way to prosperity, but most GOP presidents raised them. Total adherence to the constitution rules but in scary times it's okay to override it. A super-strong military is essential but everyone should pack a gun for protection (from the military?) It's confusing.
Posted by: Debbieqd | Apr 24, 2009 12:12:37 PM
The kook left-wing---yes, that includes the BIG O, is not concerned about torture. Their agenda is still George Bush and anything they can do to keep his name negatively mentioned frequently by a willing media keeps peoples eyes off the the disaster that is the Obama administration.
What is torture? Well, for some left extremist it's going out to a job every day. There does need to be a definition and I don't trust congress or the ACLU to do it.
Posted by: azcowboy | Apr 24, 2009 12:29:14 PM
There has been more of a ground swell against Obama and his policies than any other president has ever experienced in my knowledge in his first hundred days!! Why not share this with the public?
Posted by: Ron | Apr 24, 2009 12:45:49 PM
What we did is NOT torture,cutting a persons head off like poor Daniel Pearlman and so many others is torture.Being stuck on a top floor of a burning building and being forced to jump or burn alive as so many of our civilains at the WTC were, is torture. What Obama has done by releasing this info and even considering prosecution is a disgrace to his office, and places innocent American lives in grave danger.
Posted by: Danny77 | Apr 24, 2009 1:28:42 PM
Paul Wall,
One reputable source is the NY Times. All of you self proclaimed "Progressive Liberals" or as defined in several dictionary's, Socialists, need to stop claiming to "love this country" when all you do is try to push us to the bottom of the pile.
We signed the Geneva Convention to regulate military behavior in conventional warfare. This is a far cry from conventional. In this war on terror, if I had it my way, there would never be any prisoners to interrogate. They would all be KIA. We don't torture prisoners and then behead them on video to be shown on the cable news networks like our cowardly, civilian adversaries that hide in crowded neighborhoods to fire their missiles and launch their attacks.
I remember back in the 70's when I was a democrat, then I grew up and faced reality. Take off the rose colored glasses, move out of D.C or San Francisco, and look around. There are some really bad people in the world and on 9/11 they didn't really care if the victims of the terrorist attacks were Democrat or Republican, only that they were infadels! Every time the Democrats win an election, the first order of business is to neuter our intelligence agencies and our military and then they have the audacity to wonder why we get attacked. Wake up and smell the cordite!
Posted by: Robert Weathers | Apr 24, 2009 1:52:17 PM
Post a comment
