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Daily Roundtable: In the meantime...
March 10, 2008 11:53 AM
With a six week slog until Pennsylvania, what can the Democrats do in the meantime?
According to Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida, it's not about what to do, it's about what to do-over. In the Wall Street Journal, Nelson said he asked DNC Chair Howard Dean for the Democratic Party to pay for a Florida primary re-vote, but Dean "suggested the state party could raise the funds."
"Either way, it's imperative that the Democratic Party at both the national and state levels participate in finding a solution. Otherwise the Democratic Party unfortunately appears headed for a political train wreck that could involve a floor fight at the convention over recognizing Florida's delegates," Nelson writes.
On Sunday, Howard Dean seemed optimistic, "I would prefer that their delegates are seated in some way, but that way has to be within the rules that everybody agreed to...And I think they will."
You can watch Howard Dean's appearance on this week here, and Michigan Sen. Levin and Florida Gov. Crist tackle the topic here.
What do you think? Should Michigan and Florida get do-overs? Who should pay for it? Could this decide the Democratic race? Share your thoughts in our comments section.
March 10, 2008 in Daily Roundtable | Permalink | User Comments (25)
No. Michigan and Florida both tried to bypass the DNC rules in order to be more influential in the nomination process. The Florida and Michigan state party leaders should be kicking themselves right now because their states would have had more influence by waiting. Allowing them to hold a primary or caucus only rewards them for not following the rules. It rewards them by giving them an even larger degree of influence on the nomination process than they would have gotten if their early primaries had been counted. I am truly sorry that the voters did not have their say in the matter, but there has to be strict rules or states might move their primaries earlier and earlier.
Allowing Michigan and Florida to have a "revote" would set a precedent that would have widespread consequences in future elections.
Posted by: Bill H. | Mar 10, 2008 12:13:28 PM
Nope. it's another Clinton win at any cost and the voters be damned attempt to steal the election along with assists from a REPUBLICAN ( wonder why?) and a Gov. from MI whose about to become job less based on term limits with no other prospects in sight...and one of the main ones who caused this mess in the first place. They should NO SAY. They gave up that right and if they are angry now? Too bad.
Posted by: Sam | Mar 10, 2008 12:15:33 PM
Yes do it over. I should be a Clinton win. She has more experience. Barack
should take the VP. If not the demorcratic has lost the race.
Posted by: CRoss | Mar 10, 2008 12:24:02 PM
Good grief, this is not some type of massive DNC Big Brother behaviorist intervention system. Yes, Florida and Michigan broke DNC rules the first time out. We should not count those votes. A re-vote will be in compliance of the rules. Voters will not be disenfranchised. It's a win-win. Those that want to leave this pool of Democrative voters disenfranchised have a political IQ of less than an eight year old. As Senator Levin said, "It's unthinkable".
Posted by: WestCoastMessenger | Mar 10, 2008 12:29:51 PM
What I would do to break the deadlock in this election cycle:
1)Do away with the superdelegates.
2)Find some way to have primaries in Florida and Michigan.
3)Resolve that all remaining primaries will be done on a winner-take-all-basis.
I think that's the best Howard Dean can do right now.
Posted by: hopesprings52 | Mar 10, 2008 12:40:24 PM
BTW I found a fantastic article…A MUST read for EVERYONE “The Hussein Dynamic” at http://savagepolitics.com.
Brilliant writing that goes beyond what the MSM is feeding us!!!!
Here is an excerpt: “The issue of Barack Obama’s religious definition has captivated many Americans to the point were charges of terrorism and counter charges of racism have been thrown into the fray of the discussion, aimed at either side. To many Liberal Americans, whether or not Obama is a Muslim (or was a Muslim) is irrelevant to the feelings of “hope” and “change” that he inspires in them, which they consider to have a higher merit than petty religious or ethnic associations. To many Conservative Americans, the mere allocation of any candidate within the realm of Islam is sufficient reason to vote against him, irrespective of the details that may lie in the penumbra of his personal story. Either way, it is impossible for any citizen to make an intelligent assessment of either perspective, without knowing the details and the relevant information regarding Mr. Obama’s past. Unlike the Mainstream Media, who has automatically assumed that Obama has no relation to Islam, in a vague attempt to paint themselves as “reasonable” and “progressives”, most thinking citizens should not follow suit. There is ample evidence to make any reasonable citizen conclude that the Obama campaign and the Media have been hiding some crucial elements of this candidate’s past that should become widely known and discussed in the open. Let us then ask ourselves; Is Barack Obama a Muslim?” get the rest at http://savagepolitics.com/?p=171
Posted by: Elsy | Mar 10, 2008 12:40:28 PM
Because both candidates, Hillary Clinton and Barack Hussein Obama‘s names are on the ballot, redo Florida primary is unfair and unconstitutional beside wasting money and resources. We have to respect the voters’ decision based on our constitutional. Meanwhile, a mail in vote in Michigan is a democratic and economical way to solve the conflict interest because Obama’s name is not on the ballot..
Posted by: stock_craft | Mar 10, 2008 12:47:17 PM
Look the point of this nomination is to win the white house. No democratic nominee will win the white house by disenfranchising over two million democrats. They will lose Michigan and Florida automatically, if their name is even on the ballot and the republicans will use the arguement that democrats dont want democracy and dont want voters to count in other states to win them as well.
Michigan and Florida must be seated at convention. If nothing happens between now and then, they will petition the committee. If that fails they will take it to the floor. There will be civil war at that point in time and you can just forget the genral election.
The DNC either has to decide to seat Michigan and Florida soon, with an emergency meeting, or sanction a revote soon.
The other two possibilities of taking it to convention or even the committee in August and then not seating them guarentee the white house for the republicans.
I personally think its a total waste of time energy and money that could be better spent fighting the republicans to do a revote that will for all intents and purposes turn out exactly the same way the first vote did.
Alos for Mr obama to lose these states twice would be disasterous for his campaign. To force a revote is disasterous. To not seat them is the most disasterous.
Honestly the best case scenario for Obama is to ask to have them seated. He can look like he's taking the high road and taking one for the team.
I think a redo, where he might gain a couple delegates in Michigan but lose all the supers in both states is the death knell of his campaign.
He should go for the good PR and let them be seated.
That's just my opinion.
Not seating Florida and Michigan is just not an option. Dividing the delegates 50/50 would be unconstitutional and juvenile. It's not kindergarden recess cookies we are dividing. You cant ignore an election and just divide delegates.
The delegates already elected should just stand, or be seated actually.
Posted by: s.b. | Mar 10, 2008 12:54:52 PM
Very simple question, why the other states such as Iowa and New Hampshire are allowed to vote early but not Michigan and Florida? Are the people in those states born different? In fact, it’s the GOP in Florida who made up the date for the early primary and not the Dem because it is a GOP controlling state.
Posted by: stock_craft | Mar 10, 2008 12:55:45 PM
Another reason why Obama should let the delegates as is be seated. If these redo's happen in the last third of the nominating process, they automatically get a third more delegates. Loses in Michigan and Florida under that scenario for Obama are amplified.
Them's the rules.
Posted by: s.b. | Mar 10, 2008 12:58:30 PM
Michigan and Florida have voted.
The state government conducted voting.
Not accepting these votes is saying Those people do not matter.
Coming up with excuses to do a re-vote is just that a sad excuse and sending a message to America is the voting in America legal, and if my vote does not count the first time I vote, you want to re-do it.
The democratic party should abide by the state. The voting was done by the state legally.
All primaries Should be done on one day!
It would be fairer to Americans, all candidates running, and the cost would be greatly reduced
Posted by: seah | Mar 10, 2008 1:11:42 PM
are the obama supporters aware that your choice of candidate explicitly mentioned that he would do whatever he can to get the delegates counted when he visited Florida late last year (around october)? now why would you or your candidate want to exclude those votes being counted? because he lost despite he was running a national TV ad in florida while no other candidate was running any ads locally nor nationally? is that not a double talk?
Posted by: nosense03 | Mar 10, 2008 1:31:20 PM
NO!! Hillary didn't say "boo" about "disenfranchising" the voters of Florida and Michigan until she failed -- to her shock -- to wrap up the nomination on February 5. Instead of having a "plan B" in place for the ensuing primaries/caucuses, the Clinton campaign obviously decided to start agitating to get Michigan and Florida's delegates seated. Why bust your hump and spend a bunch of money on primaries and caucuses when you can get credit for delegates "won" in a pseudo-election that's already taken place? (Why, by the way, has there been no outcry from the allegedly Obama-biased media about this naked power-grab -- then or now?)
This is absolutely outrageous, and threatens to ensure that John McCain will get to nominate two or three Supreme Court justices.
Posted by: jac13 | Mar 10, 2008 1:57:38 PM
Why should Hillary Clinton be above the rules? She has lost. She can't make up the pledged delegates and will be behind by millions in the popular vote. Deal with it. Continuing this only damages her reputation and harm the Democratic nominee’s chance in November. Or maybe this is what it is all about, revenge on the person who ruined her chance for the presidency. It shows a horrendous amount of selfishness and delusion.
Posted by: Radmanaustin | Mar 10, 2008 1:57:59 PM
for the best interest of demo party, they better include the votes from florida an dmichigan while exclude those from red states like alaska, etc.
Posted by: nosense03 | Mar 10, 2008 2:08:19 PM
For all those who support Hillary and Bill and cite the wonderful world of the 90's as your reason to believeI wonder if you can explain how the GOP will remember the wonders of Whitewater and Vince Foster and the fact that this couple was too busy dealing with Monica Lewinsky stories to deal with a certain mideastern madman who was blowing up US Naval ships and embassies while they dawdled with these items. It is Not the nineties. We have suffered twenty years of the Bush Clinton world. The latest dirty tricks by the attack couple suggesting that the leader of the race should bow to the anointed one is another example of the Clinton's Hubris'. They believe they are owed the White House and will apparently do or say anything to get there. Bill & Hillary have become themselves the Bush Cheney of the 2000's. No low is too low if it gets them to power. Have we not had enough of this? Are we truly going to go backward for more of the same? Don't we need change from day one?
Posted by: gmec | Mar 11, 2008 2:34:45 AM
Regarding Florida I believe the vote should stand and the delegates be seated. Both candidates were on the ballot and neither campaigned in the state. This made for a level playing field and thus there is no need or reason for a re-vote. In fact, in many ways you could say this primary was the most fair of any because of the lack of campaigning and advertising. It was a fair election and the people of Florida voted in good faith. Their vote should be received as such and the delegates seated according to that vote.
Regarding Michigan, another vote may be necessary although one could make the argument that Obama elected to have his name removed and should therefore suffer the consequences of that. If it is decided the vote cannot stand another vote by either mail or in person balloting should be done not a caucus. My husband and I were in Texas for the vote there last week and caucuses have no place in our democratic system. Fear, intimidation and bullying do not make for a fair and free election.
Posted by: SusanL | Mar 11, 2008 9:02:16 PM
Georg Will's assertion that the ability to run one's party is directly related to how that party will run the country is absurd.
As we have seen in the last 7 years, the Republican Party is absolutely unified and runs like a well tuned machine, but their running of the country is a textbook demonstration of incompetence at a catastrophic level.
Running a party with efficiency does not mean you will run the country competently - Nazi Germany taught us that lesson!
Posted by: TomW | Mar 16, 2008 11:00:04 AM
I am wondering why all the talk was on Obama's Pastor, why not a mention of McCain's two radical pastors endorsements? How about some fairness?
Posted by: Mena | Mar 16, 2008 12:14:04 PM
Sorry that my blog link on Obama's church
has a bad link due to some text of my blog
that was included in the link info....Here is the correct link.
Just paste it into browser window.
Do yourself a favor and look at what
every member is required to agree with
and be committed to as a member
of this extremely race oriented church.
Posted by: mrlc | Mar 16, 2008 1:46:26 PM
I am surprised nobody on your panel challenged George Will when he pondered what the government might be like under the democrats who cannot even run a primary. I prefer the democrat's version of incompetence to the lock-step republicans who sent this country to an unnecessary war, couldn't even get water to people under water in New Orleans, are now torturing people for crimes that we have tried and convicted people for in the past, let the civilian contractors embezzle billions of dollars in Iraq. Their 6 years in power of all branches of the government has systematically destroyed the country's rule of law. give me a break George Will.
Posted by: speakingwheat | Mar 18, 2008 12:19:28 AM
Did not George Stephanopoulous edge even deeper into yellow journalism by emphatically stating on the ABC evening news (3/19/08)that Obama was losing ground in the aftermath of the Wright revelations WITHOUT mentioning where the ground was lost: Among Independents? Among blue collar poor whites who were not voting for him at any cost? Why didn't Stephanopoulous mention that Obama got the greatest applause from a packed audience in Charlotte NC (March 19th) when he made reference to his March 18th speech on race? Why not? Because George Stephanopoulos is joining the number of whites who are really afraid that a black man might become President!
Posted by: Dee Walker | Mar 19, 2008 7:18:43 PM
If dems don't take florida and mich. in to concideration , and count the votes in the primary does that mean they don't vote in the general election.I think not.
Posted by: think about it | Mar 21, 2008 8:38:57 AM
WHERE is the media attention for the FILTHY slur by James Carville, of Governor Richardson as JUDAS?
WHERE is Senator Clinton apologizing, and denouncing and rejecting Carville and this slur?
Super Delegates should leave Clinton in droves, for this insult of a respected Governor, Ambassador, and presidential candidate.
A Judas comparrison is BEYOND THE PALE.
The mention of thirty pieces of silver implies a pay off or bribe which Carville had better becareful shooting off his mouth, when teams of lawyers could have him in court in a nano second.
Posted by: mark | Mar 23, 2008 10:24:30 AM
Recently, Rep. Nita Lowey commented regarding the Michigan and Florida delegates, saying "We're all adults, here..." which is an excellent point. Certainly, Mrs. Clinton would like to have the votes count, as she was the winner of those two states, and she is lacking in numbers at this point. However, she did agree to the Democratic Party's decision to disqualify the delegates from those states before the primaries were held, and BEFORE THE RACE BECAME SO CLOSE.
Just what exactly are the "adults" showing our young people about rules and regulations? That you can agree to the rules/laws when it is convenient, but it's ok to break those rules if it suits your purpose? I didn't think laws and rules were meant to be bent according to what you need them to say. I'm sorry for the people of Michigan and Florida, but it's not as if those setting up the primaries before the allowed time were unaware of the consequences. Let's not teach our young people that it's okay to KNOWINGLY break the rules, because you can beg, plead and demand to get your way or some compromise later on, so it doesn't really matter what you do. Indeed, how can we convince someone to abide by set rules, if we allow those rules to be broken with just a slap on the wrist and "don't do that again" response. If the rule/system needs to be changed, the correct way would be to try to change it through proper channels and methods, rather that the "It's better to ask forgiveness, than to ask permission" approach that seems to have been taken. Michigan and Florida knew exactly what the results of their actions would be and defiantly continued with their plans. Now, the rest of the country should feel sorry for them because they won't be represented? It's time to grow up and accept responsibility for your actions.
Posted by: marye2 | Apr 5, 2008 6:59:03 PM
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